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Mal, I am reasonably sure Sam's Sport had been repainted probably in similar colors to the originals but there is no way of being certain. David

No, no Mal, ... it's perfectly fine to ask this question here. It's about originality and a 1924 Packard and it fits here in my blog. Without ever having seen the vehicles live, I think this question is probably not that easy to answer. When I look at the pictures of the “original” by Steve Babinsky, I see a gray (“Dustproof Gray”) that, depending on the photo and the incidence of light, shows parts of olive green and a grayish blue. I see the same color ratios on “Sam’s” car when you zoom in on the photo. The surface of this car appears to have layers that may have been the result of subsequent paint “refreshing” or a heavy patina from the application of waxes etc. over the decades. But this is all speculative. However, I would have understood something different by “Brilliant and Flashing Gray” as it is described in the prospectus. Ultimately, the whole thing could only be clarified if these two vehicles were parked next to each other.
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While David was replying I wrote this comment. So just my take on Mal's question.

Karl

I was initially unpleasantly surprised when I had the first rim on the balancing machine and checked the synchronism. The first rim had 4mm side runout and 3mm vertical runout. But further measurements show that all rims had exactly the same heights and sideways runs. Maybe someone here knows whether these irregularities also occurred on other rims from this production period. I suspect that this was a result of the production of the rims at this time. I had taken a closer look at the rims in their raw state and noticed that there may have been problems with the fit between the two components...outer ring and inner disk because sections of the inner ring between the rivets towards the valve tube did not lie exactly against the outer ring. I assumed that the two components of the rim were placed in an assembly structure, the inner disk was tapped into the outer ring and then the rivets were pressed in. Given the tolerances at that time, it could then happen that the inner disk was not able to fully fit against the outer ring after the rivet had been driven in, which led to deformations. (Towards the end, the parts of the inner disk did not fit smoothly against the outer ring). Given the speed that his vehicle reached, this may well have been within the accepted tolerance range. The fact that all 5 rims have pretty much exactly the same deviations from ideal concentricity cannot actually be a consequence of later damage. Does anyone know more about this??
In today's pictures you can see the inside of the rims, onto which I applied spray filler/Putty with the paint gun to fill the deep rust holes. The spray filler is a relatively harder filler after it has hardened. Good for stability…. bad for manual grinding. It takes me around 7.5 hours for 2 insides of the rims because I sand the filler down so far that only the holes remain filled. After applying marking powder, you can clearly see the deep spots of the rust holes. Whenever possible, I use my eccentric sander maschines. However, there are still enough areas that can only be sanded manually. It's especially funny between the rivets.

Karl

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Sorry friends,
but the guy who lets us live upstairs in his house,
He bought for himself a used sports convertible. The soft top was
in a very poor Condition and so I had to built him a new Top in
the last few days.
He will use it to accompany us to the next classic car meetings.
I'll now get back to the rims.
So that I can post something here on my blog again.

Karl

At what points on the wheel assembly are you measuring run out? It's important that the tire bead seating areas be straight and concentric. The outer edges of the rim flanges are often somewhat irregular.

Is it possible that these wheels were ever in a fire? That could account for a uniform irregularity in all four of them.

Tires usually show some irregularity. "Match mounting" tires can minimize the effects of wheel and tire irregularities.

Run out can usually be corrected.

I'd also carefully check to be sure these wheels fit the arbor of the balancing machine correctly, and that there is no damage to the hub area of the wheels or any issue with the balancing machine. Wheels can be damaged in the hub area by over-tightening and /or uneven tightening of the fasteners or tightening the wheel against a hub flange that is rusty or muddy. Some people have been known to put lug nuts on backwards, which can lead to damage.

……. by the way, this is the guy who lets us live upstairs in his house for he last 13 years!
His Name is Max and he's a purebred wire-haired dachshund... but all these years he said his father was a Doberman and his mother a German Shepard and that's how he always behaved, which got him some trouble with his peers over the years.
What ever ….. it looks like, …. he likes his new Sport Phaeton.

Karl

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In order to concretize my results of the synchronization measurement,...
First of all... yes, all relevant components for holding the rims on the balancing machine are perfect. The adapters I made that had to be made to mount these rims on the balancing machine have a vertical runout of 1/100 mm and a side runout of 1.2/100 mm. Also negligibly low. The adapters are manufactured in such a way that the rim is forcibly centered. The stop area of the rims, which lies against the brake drums, was metallically clean during the measurement. I measured the runout at the relevant point right next to the bead area of the rim, where the tire first rests on the rim and also at the end of the tire pad, 1 cm before the start of the snap ring connection.
I measured the side runout in the area of the tire bead, where the curve ends at the rising rim flange... also approx. 6-8 mm above the tire contact patch. Basically, it should be noted that the entire tire contact area around the rim was so irregular, even in the area of the greatest runout, that a measurement with the micrometer screw was not possible. And this despite the fact that I sanded the entire surrounding surface cleanly with the eccentric sander (180 grit) and filled the remaining shallows with spray filler and then sanded them flat again, so that only (!) the depressions and holes were filled and the rest of the metal surface closed see is. The rim was visible (..as shown in the pictures...) However, it was clearly visible that the rim ring was pulled deeper where the rivets were set. It can be seen very clearly on page 8, ... picture ... 439. For me, the external indication was that the inner diameter of the rim ring did not perfectly match the outer diameter of the inner rim disc. This was clearly visible as an undulating movement on the surface as the tire was rotated under the dipstick. The observed impact was not only visible in one location, but in various locations around the entire contact patch of the tire. The 3 mm mentioned was just the largest height difference measured. The same applies to the determined lateral runout. To me this suggested that this may have been a question of production output/capacity at the time. That's why I'd be interested to know if anyone knows that the heights and lateral runout for the same rims or rims with the same design agree with my results.
As far as side runout is concerned... I would have liked to have tried to have the rims optimized as much as possible by a specialist company. Unfortunately, the last company in my area that could repair steel disc rims closed 25 years ago. Everything only works on aluminum rims. So... if it turns out that the condition of the rims is due to production, I would forget the whole thing and drive the wheels as they are.

Karl

I don't know of a source for any factory specifications for allowable run-out. The dimpling at the rivet points suggests a manufacturing flaw, or possibly a repair done in the past. However, the uniformity of the run-out among the 4 wheels supports a manufacturing defect and that the wheels were deemed to be within acceptable limits.