Packard Forum Index » General

If you go to the parts store and buy a starter "bump switch," which is handy to have anyway, you can connect that to a negative battery source and the small terminal on the start solenoid.

But it's probably best to just buy a generic universal 3-position starter/ignition switch while you're at the parts store to use until you can find an actual Packard switch. They are generally pretty cheap. Napa has them for less than $30. Then you won't have to hook and unhook wires to avoid frying the coil when that car isn't running.


People get too confused by positive vs. negative ground. The wiring is all the same (except for the coil); it's just the voltage is flowing the other way (so to speak). So, when looking at the wiring and the diagrams, keep it simple: it is either going to the ground or to the harness, which is fed by the battery. Don't even think about it in terms of polarity, as it really doesn't matter.

Assuming the battery is connected positive ground as Packard would have done it, the positive terminal of the coil would go to the terminal on the distributor and the points closing and opening are what connects it to ground. The negative terminal on the coil would in normal use connect to the ign switch COIL or IGN terminal which will provide power when the key is on. Since you do not have an ign switch you can temporarily connect the negative coil terminal to the battery negative with an easy to connect and remove jumper wire such as a clip or test lead. I suggest a clip lead since connecting and disconnecting that jumper will be the only way to run or stop the engine. That is OK for a test but I would also suggest you pick up a universal ign switch at a parts store and wire that in until you can get a proper switch. Downside to that approach on many 6v cars is modern switches are usually 12v and some cannot take a lot of the extra current 6v systems require running thru them for very long. You have minimal accessories that require power so it should be fine to run a universal switch on your car but if you plan on keeping it long term then get a good quality switch. You need a 3 position ACC, OFF, and RUN switch. That will have 3 terminals on the end that will probably be labeled BAT, IGN and ACC. BAT would be the same as AM in the wiring diagram, ACC is the same as GA, and IGN would be same as COIL.

The bump switch Kev suggested is a good idea but there may be more involved on your car. To energize the starter motor you will need to provide voltage to the solenoid to have it work the pinion and starter contacts. I presume your Custom still has the stock 356 engine but I can see it does have the large Autolite starter. That fairly large solenoid with a square box like assy on the end where the 4 terminals connect is a bit unique to power. It gets a bit more complex in connecting it since the car would have had a starter safety circuit which may still be connected. If it is intact all the wiring between the regulator and generator must be present and working.

Without an ign switch, the safest way to energize the starter solenoid, providing the wiring is intact, is to identify the wires at the carburetor switch. One will go to one of the upper small terminals on the solenoid and the other will be going to the ign switch and may just be hanging. Disconnect the wire at the carb going to the ign sw and temporarily connect another jumper wire from the battery negative terminal to that starter switch terminal. That way the accelerator will energize the starter motor as would normally happen. If any of the starter wiring is missing or in poor condition then you will need to identify whether the car still has the safety circuit and then disconnect some wires to bypass the circuit so you can energize the solenoid directly.

Quote:

That too but autocorrect had other ideas!

OK, really got under the hood tonight and the wiring is a horror show. Bare wires everywhere and shaky splices here and there. It's clear that a new wiring harness would be needed in the long run.

So, still want to get just the motor running so I can access its health.

I think it best to disconnect all the wiring that is not necessary to just start and run the engine.

It looks like I can take a bunch of wires that run from one of the large starter terminals that lead to and pass through the firewall.

This looks like it might get most of it?

What about the wires on the generator? It would be nice to have the generator wired to keep the battery up but I don't think it's necessary.

Is anything coming off the generator I should disconnect?

Thanks guys!

Attach file:

---

  PXL_20240701_224313835.jpg (3,170.77 KB)


  PXL_20240701_224323386.jpg (2,661.15 KB)

Tried an experiment tonight. No luck getting anything to move.
If I took apart the starter relay I'd know how it's wired and know what to do, but trying to take as little stuff apart at this point as possible.

Attach file:

---

  starter_wiring.jpg (1,262.17 KB)

I would forget about having the generator working for now if you only want to test the engine. Just disconnect the wires from the field and arm terminals on the generator and for safety even though there should be nothing feeding them keep the wires from shorting to anything. After that, the bare minimum to start the engine is a jumper wire to the coil and for convenience, the bump or remote starter switch Kev suggested to energize the solenoid and starter. You can use another jumper wire for the starter but it is more of a pain to do so.

For the bare minimum wires needed, remove any wires now on the solenoid terminals except the cable from the battery. That should leave a heavy metal jumper connecting one terminal on the solenoid to the starter motor and the large battery cable. Run a short 16 ga jumper wire or a test clip lead from the solenoid battery terminal to the coil negative terminal. The coil positive terminal would go to the distributor terminal. Connect the bump switch to the solenoid battery terminal and one of the small terminals above it. Use a short 16ga jumper to ground the other small terminal on the solenoid. That will be enough to provide a spark and by pushing the bump switch button activate the starter. If the engine should start the only way to stop it will be to disconnect the battery or the jumper wire going to the coil.

There will be no gauges doing it this way so if you want those and the wires to senders are in good enough condition it will require another jumper wire connected to the BAT terminal on the solenoid. The other end of the wire will connect to the gauges on the back of the cluster. Before connecting that wire disconnect the existing wire feeding the buss bars and connect the jumper in its place. Make sure when you power the gauges none make any movements to the high end and stay there. If they do that would be an indication of a shorted sender wire and leaving it connected will damage the gauge.

Because the engine has sat for years the points are probably oxidized or in poor condition. Use a point file or some fine emery cloth to clean them before trying to start the engine. Don't use ordinary sandpaper as that can leave grit embedded in the points.

It looks like the safety circuit is still intact so on your test you basically shorted power to ground thru the generator. Here is a drawing of the safety circuit I did for another car. On your car ignore the wire numbers on the drawing. You need to disconnect the red wire I show connected to a small solenoid terminal and put a wire direct to ground in its place. Voltage applied to the other small solenoid terminal should energize the solenoid providing it is working.

Attach file:

---

  226933_6683337e72eff.jpg (389.95 KB)


  22-23 cluster rear.jpg (406.28 KB)


  356 with Autolite solenoid and safety ground circuit.jpg (224.57 KB)

Got starter motor working and motor turning over.

Now to figure out why no spark.

Points or condenser are a good possibility. After a years long sit the points can oxidize or they can be burned if the key was on and engine sat unrunning with points closed for a period of time. To check the coil though pull the center high tension lead out of distributor cap and place the end near the block. Disconnect the wire at distributor coming from coil positive terminal and using some sort of insulator (don't hold the bare terminal or wire with your fingers) scratch it against the block and watch for a spark from the high tension wire jumping to the block. If you have a good ground and at least 5 1/2 volts at the coil coming from battery there should be a good spark. If that happens then time to check the points, condenser, rotor and spark plugs. Plugs could also be fouled which could result in no spark.

Whatever you do make sure the gas is fresh and not anything in the tank or lines. Even if it starts, a few minutes running on old stale gas can do a job on the valve stems.

One other thing that might be worth checking is the orientation of the distributor. I see the vacuum advance pointing toward the starter motor. Typically it points forward toward the oil fill pipe. As long as the plug wires are in the proper spots relative to the rotor position it should not be a big deal as long as the distributor body can rotate enough for timing but if someone put the dist in 180 out without having the wires and rotor correct the engine will never start.

Here is a bit of the wiring diagram showing the wires in the cap. The distributor rotates CCW and #1 plug wire should be at roughly the 7 o'clock position IF the oil pump was installed correctly. The distributor runs off the oil pump drive gear and can slide in two ways but if the drive gear is off a tooth or two the #1 plug wire may not land precisely where book says it should. Again not a big deal if off a small amount such as one hole as long as the wires are re-positioned accordingly. Instructions for the initial setting of the oil pump gear are starting around page 38 in the engine section of the 46-50 SM which you can download from the archive.

Attach file:

---

  wires.jpg (133.90 KB)

Got spark and got engine to run for a few seconds by pouring gas down the carb and some ether.

Still just want to spend minimal time and effort to getting it running long enough to access its health.

I'm wondering how bad it would be to just plumb some gas into that old carb and see what happens?