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Re: Battery Shutoff Switch
#31
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HH56
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I identified the two circuits TxGoat meant by body feed wire and starter motor circuit wire on a late 20s Packard wiring diagram but your model may have slightly different wiring and connection points. In your car, what TxGoat calls body feed is actually un-named but is a lighter gauge wire which usually powers everything EXCEPT the starter motor and often goes thru an ammeter first and can have a fuse or circuit breaker after that protecting anything connected to the wire.

In later models that same separate feed wire is still present and un-named and provides the same direct battery power source to everything but there is an even lighter gauge wire coming off a fuse from that ware actually called the body feed wire. That wire powers only light duty items inside the body such as courtesy lights etc. Starters always connect direct to the battery via a heavy battery cable, in this case thru a foot operated switch but with later cars, thru a solenoid.

This drawing shows a separate terminal where the feed wire connects to the battery cable before the starter switch but I would have no idea what to have you look for. Possibly they actually did connect it to one side of the starter switch much like the later cars did which had the battery connect direct to a starter solenoid terminal and the body feed wire connect to the same terminal.

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Posted on: Yesterday 11:04
Howard
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Re: Battery Shutoff Switch
#32
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TxGoat
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The body feed wire suggestion would NOT apply to any car with a mechanically activated starter. Most older cars with a starter solenoid take power for everything BUT the starter motor from the battery terminal on the starter solenoid. The body feed wire (by whatever name) would not likely ever see over 40 to 60 amps maximum with all lights and accessories on. On my '37 120, the body feed is connected to the battery terminal on the starter solenoid. The horn relay battery wire is also connected to the same terminal. On my car, the accessory electric fan is also connected to the same terminal. Disconnecting the body feed on my car would disable all stock equipment on the car except the horns. My car has an internally grounded starter solenoid, so the starter button and solenoid would not function with the feed wire disconnected. I see no reason why the horns could not also be put on a feed wire switch. This set up would need a switch that could handle 100 + amps, and wiring would need to kept as short as is practical and wire and terminals of appropriate size would be required. The advantage of this arrangement would be in keeping the heavy starter motor current off the disconnect switch, and it would allow more flexibility in where the disconnect switch could be located, since the switch wiring could be much smaller than otherwise and the length of the added wiring would not be as critical.

A car with a mechanically operated starter motor could have a heavy duty starter solenoid inserted in the battery cable to the starter. (NOT the ground) The solenoid could be connected to a button type switch located where-ever convenient. To start the car it would be necessary to press the button to activate the added solenoid and then press the starter pedal while holding the button. The solenoid would NOT be used with an on-off type switch, since it is NOT designed for continuous duty. A starter button would disconnect the solenoid as soon as soon as the operator released the button.

Posted on: Yesterday 13:15
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Re: Battery Shutoff Switch
#33
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HH56
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The late 20s Packard wiring shown in the post above has a foot or mechanical starter switch in the cable to the motor. Whether the starter motor only has an inertia movement type Bendix and the switch just completes the circuit to start the motor or if the foot starter switch also moves the pinion into mesh with the ring gear is unknown but unlike later cars, there is no starter solenoid on that particular model. That is why I brought up the possibility of a separate terminal someplace where the wire feeding power to the car itself can be connected to the battery cable.

Posted on: Yesterday 13:31
Howard
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Re: Battery Shutoff Switch
#34
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Packtriots
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Thanks all... Not sure where I'm at at this point. I'm going to try to consult with a couple locals who can look at the vehicle and perhaps assist.

Posted on: Yesterday 18:55
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Re: Battery Shutoff Switch
#35
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TxGoat
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As late as 1947, Pontiac had a starter pedal on the floorboard that both switched the starter motor on and engaged the starter drive.

Posted on: Yesterday 19:51
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Re: Battery Shutoff Switch
#36
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su8overdrive
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Packriots, forgive my not including more specs. You're right about different readings depending on 6/12/36-volt application, of course:

"Switch Type
Master Disconnect Switch

Material
Copper
Mounting Type
Flange Mount

Specification Met
UL
About this item

Two positions, Off-On
For 6-36V DC systems
Will disconnect the battery circuit only
Electrical ratings UL listed 375M, 250A at 6V, 125A at 12V intermittent; 40A at 6V, 20A at 12V continuous
Electrical ratings on UL labels are conservative"

Again, your starter motors do not draw more amps than the gear-reduction behemoth on my nine-mained 356-ci engine, and i've friends with such engines also long using the above Cole Hersee which well served and serves my '40 and '47 Packards since the late 1970s. No qualms, no caveats, no interference.

Saw one for $37 or so via Amazon, but i detest them, my girl and i only shopping Amazon as last ditch resort, esp. given their stunt of unwittingly enrolling millions of users in Amazon Prime, resulting in the national class action suit against Amazon a year and a half ago. Chrysler and Packard were above board concerns.

Nice to know your cars' history, or "provenance," as the auction houses say. Lovely cars. You've a full house by any measure.

Posted on: Yesterday 20:46
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Re: Battery Shutoff Switch
#37
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Packtriots
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Quote:

su8overdrive wrote:
Packriots, forgive my not including more specs. You're right about different readings depending on 6/12/36-volt application, of course:

"Switch Type
Master Disconnect Switch

Material
Copper
Mounting Type
Flange Mount

Specification Met
UL
About this item

Two positions, Off-On
For 6-36V DC systems
Will disconnect the battery circuit only
Electrical ratings UL listed 375M, 250A at 6V, 125A at 12V intermittent; 40A at 6V, 20A at 12V continuous
Electrical ratings on UL labels are conservative"

Again, your starter motors do not draw more amps than the gear-reduction behemoth on my nine-mained 356-ci engine, and i've friends with such engines also long using the above Cole Hersee which well served and serves my '40 and '47 Packards since the late 1970s. No qualms, no caveats, no interference.

Saw one for $37 or so via Amazon, but i detest them, my girl and i only shopping Amazon as last ditch resort, esp. given their stunt of unwittingly enrolling millions of users in Amazon Prime, resulting in the national class action suit against Amazon a year and a half ago. Chrysler and Packard were above board concerns.

Nice to know your cars' history, or "provenance," as the auction houses say. Lovely cars. You've a full house by any measure.


Thank you sir - much appreciated! So would my earlier post about how I would wire this make sense? Instead of just running two regular battery cables, the negative would run as usual. The positive (ground) would actually be two cables: the first would go from the block ground to one side of the switch, the second would go from the other side of the switch to the negative battery terminal. One previous poster stated that that setup would be a short circuit. I'm not sure how else one would do it. Also, my floor is wood, and I was planning to mount it to the bottome side of my 3/4" floorboard and run the post through the floorboard with the knob on top. I like the Cole Hersee because it is the only one I've seen with a post that allows for up to 15/16" mounting thickness. If wood isn't a good idea, I could possibly do what you mentioned in a previous post and put it near the clutch pedal, but the wiring might be a little trickier there due to the cable runs. Thanks!

Posted on: Yesterday 21:43
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Re: Battery Shutoff Switch
#38
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su8overdrive
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Packtriot, am sure one of the Cliff Clavins (remember Cheers?) will digress, parse, but don't think it matters which (double aught, please) battery cable is interrupted by the off/on switch. On my '47 dreadnaught, the positive cable is grounded to the engine block, the negative cable goes from the battery to the switch, thence to the starter. We so routed simply as that was the most direct, the project overseen by my aforementioned licensed auto/aero wrench pilot friend, much missed for his renaissance man comaraderie as vast knowledge of old cars and old planes.

When this spoilt gothic-grilled b__ch is sleeping, as usual, the switch is off and the CTEK UC 800 6-volt "Fully Automatic 4-Step Battery Charger" does its thing, which is to trickle charge the battery, automatically stopping when it senses the battery at 100%. I bought that charger because one of Optima's upbeat techs, with no dog in the hunt, so recommended when i asked.
As you may know, any battery kept at or nearly full charge will last double or even treble as long as one that sits at low charge. However, if the car slumbers for months at a time, it's a good idea to turn on your head or fog/driving lights for 25-30 minutes, run the battery down, then immediately recharge it. This is called deep cycling. But never, ever let any battery, traditional wet cell or absorbed glass mat like Optima, sit prolonged low, which encourages sulfation, death knell for batteries.

The only exception, as i expensively learnt, is your cell/smartphone, which thrives between 20 and 80%, and should not, as i did, be maintained days, weeks, months on end at 100%.
This should be parenthetical, because it is the only exception i know to the above.

Mount your off/on switch wherever it is most convenient for you, these being luxe equipages, doncha know, providing the battery cables are as short as possible. Mine wound up under my dash well above my clutch pedal merely as that allowed for the shortest possible battery cable(s).

As mentioned, in my '40 Packard 120, the switch was under the floor, its off/on post through a hole that diameter, an inch or two in front of the driver's seat,
allowing one of the battery cables to be extremely short since the battery box was under the driver's floor. Hah, so much for weight distribution. Reasoning cars often driven sans passengers, Packard might've placed it on the passenger side. Achieving the ideal 50/50 weight distribution fore and aft, the battery in my girl's slick little Miata is in the trunk, as in many English sport cars of yore.

Keep it simple. It's your car. You're hardly desecrating anything but for one (1) hole the diameter of the off/on switch shaft. Should you ever part with either of these darling barouches, the new owner will thank you. The lever itself is held on by a screw to aid installation. Once installed, you'll be glad you don't have to remove your front seat lower cushion, or in my case, open and close your hood constantly, which are both nuisance and declasse.

Let the interminable dissonance begin!

Posted on: Today 0:07
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