Packard Forum Index » Pre-War (1899-1942)

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Rusty, I don't know if you are old enough to remember the tourist limos at Niagara Falls in the 1950's but I do and there were 7 passenger Packard, Cadillacs and Chryslers in the mix. I have owned several cars of the era of my Packard including a 1952 Windsor (my first car bought in 1964) and was the 2nd registered owner of a 1947 Cadillac 75 Imperial limousine owned by Lady Eaton (bought in 1965). Although the Chrysler was a very reliable car I didn't drive the Cadillac enough to really get to know it.
I was under the Packard a few weeks ago removing the crossmember for the transmission and the clutch linkage and I was amazed that all the bolts, except those in the engine and trans castings, were fine thread and the clutch linkage shafts all ride on bearings not bushings as were commonly used in GM cars. Quite frankly, I don't know how anyone could make a better car in 1947 than Packard did so maybe you can enlighten me?

Highlander160, thank you for your sound useful advice.

RustyO'Toole, thank you for your business advice but I will stick to my Packard, while you may not think it is as well built as other motors, I still love it.

Rusty, one thing I really must pull you up on, the Republic of Ireland is not in the 'British Isles' we sorted out the little problem many years ago.

Pat,

The Independent Sovereign State of the Republic of Ireland, (as the short extract from the Declaration of Independence, 1 April 1949, will testify).

We declare the right of the people of Ireland to the ownership of Ireland, and to the unfettered control of Irish destinies, to be sovereign and indefeasible. The long usurpation of that right by a foreign people and government has not extinguished the right, nor can it ever be extinguished except by the destruction of the Irish people. In every generation the Irish people have asserted their right to national freedom and sovereignty; six times during the last three hundred years they have asserted it to arms. Standing on that fundamental right and again asserting it in arms in the face of the world, we hereby proclaim the Irish Republic as a Sovereign Independent State, and we pledge our lives and the lives of our comrades-in-arms to the cause of its freedom, of its welfare, and of its exaltation among the nations.

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You would think someone with a name like O'Toole would know that?

Come the day
And come the hour
Come the power and the glory
We have come to answer
Our country's call...
From the four proud provinces of Ireland

(chorus)

Ireland, Ireland
Together standing tall
Shoulder to shoulder
We'll answer Ireland's call.

IrishPackard, as I'm also Irish, I also don't take any $hit from no one, I learned that from this man:




As for your Packard, yes it's an old car. Can it do what you're asking of it? OF COURSE! This is the time to find all the squeaks and do like Highlander160 said, probably the best advice on this thread, and some I plan on following eventually on my cars.

I don't know if I can enlighten you but your Packard experience reminds me of an experience I had with a 1951 Chrysler New Yorker.

It too was held together with fine thread bolts and in many cases fine thread studs where a GM or Ford product would have had coarse thread bolts.

The Chrysler's castings struck me as unusually fine grained. Every part I worked on seemed as if it cost more to make than its GM and Ford rivals.

This impression was confirmed by several articles I have on hopping up the Chrysler. These magazine articles date from 1955 to the mid 1990s. In every case they comment that remedial machine work or blueprinting is not necessary on Chrysler engines because they were made so accurately in the first place.

At that time (1951) Chrysler was the only car to offer OHV V8 engine, automatic transmission, power steering, power brakes, power windows, tinted glass, padded dash, a full set of instruments (no idiot lights) disc brakes and a host of other refinements.

Other cars had some of these features but no other car had them all and some (power steering and disc brakes) were Chrysler exclusives, though other makes copied them eventually.

I was surprised and impressed to find all this out because I had been a GM fan for years. But I prefer not to let prejudice blind me to facts.

So where was Packard while all this was going on? Building some very fine cars so I hear.

I believe the Packard's road holding and high speed stability was better than Chrysler's. The Ultramatic was a more modern transmission than the Fluid Torque Drive, in fact Chrysler's Powerflite (which came out in 1954) works a lot like an Ultramatic.

Packard had a lot to offer in the postwar period but so did its rivals. The cars of the late 40s and early 50s in some ways represent the last era of real quality in American cars.

"The British Isles are a group of islands off the northwest coast of continental Europe that include Great Britain and Ireland, and numerous smaller islands.[7] There are two sovereign states located on the islands: the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and Ireland.[8] The British Isles also includes the Crown Dependencies of the Isle of Man and, by tradition, the Channel Islands, although the latter are not physically a part of the island group.[9]"

I was misled by an old fashioned geography teacher. He did not know that Europe and England are small islands off the coast of Ireland.

The thing to remember about Chrysler products up until the '70s is that they were engineer's cars, and thus were built like an engineer would build a car. Over at GM and Ford, they were "designer's" cars, and engineered to fit the design, whereas Chrysler cars were engineered first, then a body was designed around it.

On another note, AFAIK, only Chrysler and Hudson used so much nickel in their engine blocks that they were known to almost glow in the dark from the nickel content. The blocks were so hard that if you go to grind valve seats on them you have to use a cutter made for hardened seats, as the cutter for a non-hardened seat will be chewed up by the hardness of the block rather quickly. I don't know if Packard has a similar amount of nickel in their blocks or not, I would imagine that they would, given Packard's reputation as a fine engine builder.


Incidentally, a high content of nickel in an engine block is something that the Japanese automakers copied from their onset, and which is why a Toyota and Honda engine from the '70s lasted far beyond the body. You can have a car that's almost rusted in half, but the engine has 400,000 miles on it with no sign of a ring ridge in the cylinders, as their nickel content is about as high as a Hudson. Also to my knowledge, Hudson used more nickel than any other automaker in the US. I've never seen a Hudson engine with more than 1/64th" of ring ridge, they were that tough. Maybe I was just lucky, and never did see one wore out that much???

Dear 'Rusty',

Bluntness is a virtue I admire, but bluntness combined with rudeness is a lesser form of virtuosity.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion on my posts here on this forum; it is a public medium after all. The thing I object to is your pointed barb in regard to the use of the term 'British Isles'. The use of this term is now discouraged and being rewritten out of Irish history. It is only used by smoking jacket wearing, pipe smoking, colonial types who refuse to acknowledge the reality of history.

I suspect you used Wickipeda in researching you argument in relation to the obnoxious and derogatory term, 'British Isles'. You appear to have part quoted the article, the rest I reproduce here;

The term British Isles is controversial in relation to Ireland, where there are objections to its usage due to the association of the word 'British' with Ireland.[10] The Government of Ireland discourages its use,[11][12] and in relations with the United Kingdom the words 'these islands' are used.[13][14] According to the Oxford English Dictionary[citation needed] the phrase 'British Isles' was first used in 1577 by John Dee, whose writings have been described as being politicised.[15][16] Although still used as a geographic term, the controversy means that alternative names such as "Britain and Ireland" are increasingly used.[

You cannot hope to appreciate the level of feeling here in Ireland in relation to the use of such terms, indeed in the north, the use of flags, banners or other symbology is banned so as the prevent offence. The flying of the Union Jack still makes the majorities blood run cold. That's what 800 years of fighting and resistance does to a people! Look at the present conflicts your own country is involved in and the amount of anti-American sentiment it generates in those countries, multiply that by centuries and see what happens.

My own family name is one I carry with pride, 'Feeney' is a derivative of 'na Fianna', meaning 'Soldiers of Destiny'. My family has a long history of service to the freedom of Ireland. In regard to this discussion, two of my great Grandfathers fought in our War Of Independence; one was tortured and murdered by the Black and Tans, a company of British soldiers drawn from the British prison system consisting of murderers, rapists and homicidal maniacs. My other great Grandfather escaped to the States where I hope he found a country free of old colonial thinking, one hopes.

Slan go foill,
P?draig O Feinneadha.

Rusty, I value your Packard experiences and hope to dip into that well into the future.

"Even though this is a Packard forum I can also tell you that for sheer grinding hard work a Cadillac will outlast a Packard."

Rusty, I concur with your assessment of Chrysler cars of the 1940's-50's. It was this comment about Cadillac that peaked my my curiousity not your reference to Chrysler products. I grew up within walking distance of the Chysler Windsor plant and worked there for a brief period. I have great admiration for Chrysler products up to the late 60's. My first car was a 1952 Windsor and my 2nd was a 1962 New Yorker and both were excellent well made cars if a bit rust prone.

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Pat, I think that Rusty is from the Toronto, Ontario area so likely a Canadian. Canadians are usually known for being polite almost to a fault.
On another note my surname Kenney is a derived from the ancient Irish name O Cinneide who was a nephew of Brian Baru. My great great grandfather left the Emerald Isle during the Great Famine in about 1846 as a teenager and settled in Canada.