Packard Forum Index » Pre-War (1899-1942)

Hi all,

I have now put about 700 miles on the 34 Touring and what a pleasure to drive. The only de-bug left is the car is running hot, right on the edge of boiling. Now that its getting warmer, its running 190-195 going down the road at 35mph. If at idle in traffic, I am doomed and it will boil. Always plenty of coolant.

Some things I have done and not done.

1. Verified with a temp probe in the top of the radiator that the gauge is accurate. It is, within a few degrees.

2. Forced shutters on full open. They have been on full open for all the 700 miles.

3. Water pump rebuilt in the beginning. Did not replace the impeller, as it "looked" OK.

4. Hood vents are open.

5. Radiator was never flushed, but "appears" to have good flow.

In 120 engines, there is a water distribution tube that moves water evenly to the motor. In my 120, it was deteriorated and I needed to replace. The 34 water jacket cover seems to do the same thing?

I am assuming it can only be the radiator or the water jacket. Of the two evils, which would be more likely.

Thanks for any advice.

Yes, you've got some problem as the car should run under nearly all conditions at the temperature of the Sylphon, 160-165 degrees. Has the engine been recently rebuilt? If so, running a bit hot for 1000 or more miles isn't unusual. If the engine wasn't rebuilt, has the block at least been cleaned internally with chemical cleaners? Or the side jacket removed and the block cleaner? Did the car sit idle for many years?

The radiator would be the more-likely source of the problem if it's a single source, but let me ask some further questions. Is the water flow blocked off between the jacket and the oil cooler? If so, and some have done it by just adding a blank plate, you interrupt most of the water flow to the block, that must be open to permit the cool water to flow into the oil cooler, and then exit it to the rear of the jacket.

Your problem could also be compounded by several other items, how about ignition timing? Fan belts a matched set or at least both doing about equal work? Belts the right width so they ride on the sides of the pulley and not the bottom? Overly restrictive exhaust system? Dragging brakes?

I'd have the radiator flow rate checked, Packard's specification for similar radiators in the 10th series Super Eight was 30 gallon/minute for a new radiator, and 24 gallons/minute the lower minimum limit for a used core.

Thanks for the reply. The motor has not been recently rebuilt. Yes, its been sitting idle for 15 years, but started regularly, but no driven. The block has not been cleaned with chemically cleaners.

The oil cooler is still attached, although the oil lines have been disconnected from it when I purchased it. (I assume it leaked oil somewhere and the seller cant remember why he disconnected) I have not had the water jacket off or the oil cooler, although I am beginning to think I have to. I am wondering if it has deteriorated.

Ignition timing i feel is right on...slightly retarded from pre-ignition. Brakes are not dragging and exhaust is not restrictive, as I have run it open exhaust for a short period.

I will have to check to see if I can get the radiator flow checked while still on the car.

Thank you for your continued advice.

Any suggestions for chemical flushing?

Hi Dave and Tom,
This is interesting because that is exactly the symptoms that I had but as you know Dave mine seemed to cure itslf when I changed the ignition coils.
Question Dave, although Tom has chocked open the Rad. grills how exactly does the "Sylphon" Stat work? Does it only open the Rad grill vents or does it also open up a bypass through to the engine block? Therefore if it is not working that could be still be causing a restriction or am I being to simplistic?
Mine is much better now although it still runs a bit above the figures you quoted me of approx. 160-165 degrees.
It will be interesting to find out how Tom solves this problem.
Regards
Terry

The Sylphon thermostat (in the top radiator tank) only operates the Pines winterfront (shutters). In later years Packard used a cylinder head gooseneck thermostat in conjunction with the shutter-stat for winter operation when equipped with hot water heaters, but no such provision for 1934 where many of the cars, if equipped with a heater at all, used a much more effective hot air heater (Kelch heater). The dominant antifreeze at the time was methanol (methyl alcohol) which boiled off at just above 160 degrees, hence the shutter-stat rating. As the changeover to ethylene glycol-based antifreezes became dominant, cylinder head thermostats in higher temperatures came into popularity.

As to radiator chemical cleaners, the only type that can really be effective is the type that contains a chemical agent of the family of "chelators" or "sequentrants" which has the ability to solubilize loose iron oxides. The typical chelator in effective radiator cleaners is oxalic acid, so I would look for this ingredient on the label. This type of cleaner is also distinguished by having a two-part package, the second part being a neutralizer and used in a subsequent step. DuPont offered such a cleaner for decades, perhaps still does, you'll have to shop around a bit. Oxalic acid is not a strong acid and you need not have concern about it's attack on radiators, though prudence says to wear gloves and safety glasses (which should always be done when handling chemicals, even those that are considered relatively safe).

I am ordering a new water jacket today. When I install, I will update this post as to my findings. I am thinking about a stainless one...same cost as a metal. It looks pretty!

Thanks all!

Don't forget that 1934 is a one-year only style plate with the oil cooler flange. When you get the repro jacket, examine it closely to determine if, like the original, the water must pass thru the cooler to get to the rear cylinders. If you had cooler problems (oil under pressure leaking into the cooling system) there are ways around that, still keeping the water circulation.

This is what I ordered:

piautomotive.com/oil_cooler.htm

That's the one! Interestingly, a 34 Packard Service letter shows a new improved style which replaced the holes in the inner jacket with short pipe-like nozzles. Yet I've never seen one of that so-called improved style come off a car, nor has anyone else I've spoken to with considerable experience with the 34 motors. Perhaps "improved" turned out to be not so improved after all.