Packard Forum Index » Pre-War (1899-1942)

What would be the LAST PREwar Luxury Studebaker to compete in the luxury car class of say Packard,Cadillac,Chrysler, Lincoln, etc ????

The semicustom convertible just before the war is pretty but on standard chassis, so I'd say 1933 President. These and the big Nashes are underappreciated cars.

Hi PackardV8

As bkazmer noted, the '33 President Speedway Eight Series 92 would be the last pre-war Studebaker comparable to and competitive with the Packard models until the advent of the Junior models.

With the prosperity of the late 1920's, a number of the medium priced car makers entered a series in the luxury car price class. Their motivation was the volume success of the Packard Single Six/Standard eight and the LaSalle in the emergent entry-level luxury price segment from $2,000-$3,000.

In addition to the Studebaker Presidents beginning in 1928, Nash developed the Ambassador 490 for 1930, REO their Royale by 1931, Graham-Paige Eights such as 835, 827, 837 & 137, Hupmobile Custom Eight model U, Chrysler the Imperial L-80 and Custom Imperials as well as Buick 90 Series.

As the Depression deepened, these series found a rapidly diminishing market. The results were the dropping of the luxury series models as follows: the 92 President after 1933, the Royale 831 & 835 and Ambassador 1290 after 1934, Graham Custom 137 after 1931, Hupmobile U after 1932. The upper series nameplates would appear on the subsequent high end middle priced models throughout the remainder of their time in the car business.


Chrysler continued the Custom Imperial CL through 1933, becoming the Custom Imperial CW, various Custom and Crown models through 1942. Buick built the Series 90 through 1942 as well. Of course, these last two makes had the considerable resources of their parent corporations to support the cost of producing relatively tiny numbers of luxury models.

The easiest way to identify which models are comtemporary to Classic Packard is to check the CCCA list of approved Classics.

If you have the chance to inspect a '28-'33 President, you'll find it is a finely engineered and built car comparable to the Packards in it's price class.

Steve

Didn't Studebaker...(how to put this), leech onto a Luxury make in the late twenties and early thirties? Wasn't it Pierce-Arrow? So Studebaker effectively bumped off two Luxury make in its lifetime.I guess hindsight isn't twenty-twenty afterall, or Packard would have thought twice.

This was borrowed from the Pierce-Arrow Society website.


"Many of the changes at Pierce-Arrow during the early thirties was a result of the influence of Pierce-Arrow's major stockholder, the Studebaker Corporation. In 1928, Studebaker bought $5.7 million in Pierce-Arrow stock. Studebaker was one of the major automobile companies in America and the acquisition of Pierce-Arrow put Studebaker in the number four position, behind General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler. Albert Erskine, the president of Studebaker became the chairman of the board of Pierce-Arrow, while Myron Forbes remained on as president of Pierce-Arrow. In addition to much needed cash, Pierce-Arrow also gained an increased dealer network, as Pierce-Arrows were sold through Studebaker dealerships. The engineering efforts remained, for the most part, separate, although Pierce-Arrow blocks were cast in the Studebaker foundry in South Bend. During these years, Studebaker spent a considerable amount of money on improvements to the Pierce-Arrow factory in Buffalo. Unfortunately, the optimism of the 1929 sales did not continue forward and sales at Pierce-Arrow dropped. Studebaker eventually declared bankruptcy in 1933 and sold Pierce-Arrow to a group of Buffalo businessmen for $1 million. Arthur Chanter, a former Studebaker man, became president of Pierce-Arrow, once again an independent company."

I am impressed with the above comments. Here is some more on the subject; although, not as well written. The famous and beautiful 1933 Pierce-Arrow Silver Arrow show cars were built in South Bend. I believe there were five of these cars and they were the company's effort to impress the motoring public with a modern styled automobile. They were shown around the country and demonstrated their speed at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. They were fast cars, V-12 powered, and clocked at 100 mph+ at the Speedway. The Silver Arrows came into production, but were adaptations of the show cars. Pretty, but not beautiful. This must have been after Studebaker sold Pierce.

Hello Gentlemen

"So Studebaker effectively bumped off two Luxury make in its lifetime. I guess hindsight isn't twenty-twenty after all, or Packard would have thought twice."

This opinion seems to be rife in the old car world but an examination of the facts brings one to a contrary conclusion.

Reading carefully the posting from the P-A website above, one finds that P-A was bought in 1928 at a time of financial strength by Studebaker Corporation. President Albert Erskine bought P-A as part of his plan to develop full market coverage for the corporation in the GM model. Throughout their ownership, considerable investments were made in P-A products and facilities in an effort to modernize both. The Receivership into which Studebaker fell in 1933 came about because of over-optimistic policies of Erskine and his board. P-A was only sold off to a private investment group in 1933 in order to raise funds for Studebaker Corporations' own survival as part of the receivership plan. P-A by this juncture had become a real financial drain on the corporation.
The new owners had their opportunity to try to make it a profitable enterprise, something that was virtually impossible for an independent luxury carmaker in the mids of the Depressions. The P-A demise in 1938 was fully five years after Studebaker relinquished control.

Factors not stated in the posting at the time of the Studebaker purchase was that P-A was in poor financial condition, with an antiquated factory and outdated product lines. Their factory was largely a hand labor operation, their Series 80 was uncompetitive and the large Series 36 completely antiquated (a giant T-head six). Worst of all, P-A lacked development money to create new product lines. Herein Studebaker truly came to the rescue with funds to develop the new Eights for 1929. If not for Studebaker purchasing and investing considerable money in P-A when it did, P-A would have gone the way of Locomobile.

Fast forward twenty plus years, Packard management decided combining with Studebaker offered an avenue for survival in the overheated market of the time. Remember, structurally, it was a buyout by Packard of Studebaker without thorough examination on the part of either party of the others business condition.

As they say, no one twisted Packard's arm to do so. The fact that Studebaker was in worse financial shape, only to be revealed once the deed was done, speaks only of the automotive industry management inexperience that Nance and his men brought to this decision.

To Nance's credit, he understood product content and promotion in appealing to buyers; this resulted in more appealing and interesting cars. But his lack of automotive industry experience with finance and management, displayed by the Studebaker purchase and the disastrous move to Connor Avenue are truly the decisions that drained the corporation's resources and lead to the collapse.
Studebaker may have been the millstone, but he and his people are ones who hung it around their necks!

Thanks for reading my diatribe, hope it gives you a broader perspective on these events. I welcome dissenting views as long as they're civil.

Steve

I wish to offend no Packard owners, but I think Nance modernized the styling, but in a way which resulted in much less distinctive looks. The bathtubs resembled the fuselage body efforts of the time from Hudson, Lincoln and Mercury, but with a very different front end that could only be Packard. The High Pockets cars 51-54 resembled Pontiacs and others in overall shape, and the transition to full width grills made the ox yoke shape pretty subtle. I think Packard became less visually distinctive. The 53 Caribbean pointed how to step away from the crowd more.

Nance was not involved in the 22nd and 23rd series cars. He came to Packard after the 51-54 cars were designed and being produced. It was on his watch that the V-8 Packards and Clippers of 1955-56 came to be.