Packard Forum Index » Post-War (1946-54)

I have been messing with old cars for decades and have made lots of mistakes on projects like yours. here is my experience:
1. Always inspect the car in person before buying it. If it has rust walk away unless you like wasting money.
2. My experience is that the cheapest way to own an old car is to buy the best one you can afford. The most expensive way is to buy the cheapest one you can find.
3. My own recent experience with my 1950 Packard is a real example. See my profile (Fred Puhn 1950 2301 Touring Sedan)for the sad details. I was scammed while trying to follow advice #2 because I violated advice #1 above.
4. The most expensive part of a restoration is fixing rust. Most of the damage is hidden. Unless it is a very valuable car (say $50,000 or more)it will not be feasible to fix extensive rust and come out ahead. Walk away and save money by paying more for a rust-free car. On one of my cars I paid $20,000 for it and then spent $70,000 fixing rust! Most of the rust was hidden from view. Luckily the car is worth more than that, but a 50s Packard is not in that economic class.
5. When a car sits for a long time the following things need attention, with priority in the following order;
5.1 Anything with fluid (fuel, water, brake fluid, oil)in it needs fluid changing, cleaning, and probably repair.
5.2 Anything made of rubber (belts, hoses, gaskets, seals, tires) will need inspection and probably replacing.
5.3 The electrical system will need sorting out due to bad corroded connections and possibly bad insulation
5.6 The engine may be stuck, damaged, corroded, sludged up, or otherwise bad. Test everything first before driving it.
5.7 Everything needing lubrication needs lubrication.
5.8 If the car needs paint, interior, and chrome plan on spending at least $10,000 for a cheap job and more for quality.

Best of luck on your new project.

Fred, pretty good advice and well-said.

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I agree fully. I was one of the lucky ones and didn't have any issues with them, but over time they may have blown, who knows.

Getting the car on the road was a rush job done in less than a week, as at that point in time I had an insane ex-girlfriend who took my only means of transportation and I HAD to get the car on the road to get to work.

Moral of the story: don't trust women, ever. All the cars I own are now in my name only, and will never have both names on the title, only mine. I call it a "life lesson".

On the good side of it all, it sure was better riding around in a '56 Patrician than a '92 Plymouth Sundance POS, even if the Patty didn't have a/c.

Well I have more or less been planning to replace the entire brake system from the start, I just didn't want to do it if it was unessisary, so not overly worried about that. I do plan on getting a beater for the winter months.

Fred Puhn, first I'd like to thank you for sharing your experiences. My first question is what do you define as rust? haha, as I have never seen a car that doesnt have rust on it, even new cars off the lot sometimes have some lol. So are you talking frame/body falling apart rust? or are you talking general thin layer rust. I agree with the inspection idea, as I'm not dumb enough to buy without looking it over. Then engine is not seized, and the owner says he oiled the cylenders every so often over the past few years to keep it that way (again I plan to conferm this). I don't agree with you policy on most expencice I can afford, 1 because I plan on rebuilding I have the technical skills and access to the tools needed to rebuild any part of the body/structural and anything I can't do from home I can do at my uncles metal shop, 2 from the pictures its in excellent condition (except the interior) and I have seen it from all angles. Again thanks for your input.

Painting it I plan to do myself, chrome I plan to repair any rust spots with sandblasting/primer and a chrome paint for the short term, long term possible re-chroming. Interior I am doing entirely myself as well, so basicaly all repairs on this car are only going to cost me meterials. The highest costs being from any engine repairs and replacing the brake systems.

I don't plan on rushing it to be road ready, infact I plan to more or less disassemble the entire car (except the engine/tranny unless its nessisary) strip the paint, rust, and dirt off of every thing, repair where needed reinforce anything iffy, install seatbelts. Clean the engine of any rust flecks/greese, and paint it. Then prime every thing with a layer or 2 of primer, any thing that is not getting a body colour I will probably prime another time just to be sure its a good thick layer to minimize chiping and flaking chances from dirt being kicked up, then I plan to reassemble the car, do the interior. Then drive it away.

Hopefully you have been following the project forums on this site. It will give you an idea on problems others have had as well as how much work is involved. Look at how long some of the projects have taken and how detailed the person working on it is being. Judge that with what you expect your car to look like and you will have an idea on how long it will take.

Doing all of the work will save you a great deal of money, but don't think that you are going to make money restoring the car. What you put in will never equal what you could sell it for. You need to do it for the pride of having done it yourself as well as the learning experience.

When you get to the chrome, more than likely you are better off buying pieces that have better chrome than the piece you have instead of having it replated. You will save a lot of money as long as you are looking for a presentable driver and not a show quality car.

I've been having trouble finding threads following complete restore projects + pictures on the forum, but I havent been looking long so I will keep searching.

Time isn't realy a factor to me, as I have a rediculus amount of free time these days and for the forseeable future, so I have a few hours a day (3-5 hours on week days and as many as I need on weekends).

I never thought I would make money on it just save some (on the restoration that is), I only want a car that I can be proud of, drive, and learn from and I want it to last (which is why I plan to strip the whole car down to get every inch of rust haha).

As for the chrome, for the most part there is no problem really, just a couple of rust spots (less then a few square inches over all the chrome) as for replating or replacing that is a thing for the future no idea what I will do if any thing.

I've been reluctant to post a picture incase someone else on the forum decided they wanted it lol, but I figure what the hell, so here is a pic of the front end that I got from the current owner. He is asking $2200 (canadian dollars) for it. I haven't seen the engine, but if its in half as good condition as the body then I think it's a steal at that price.

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Kevin,
Thanks for the picture.
You have asked good questions and gotten good advise.
Hope it all works out for you.

Keep us informed of your progress toward closing the deal.

DanL

I was asked to define what I (an old car collector in San Diego) call "rust". There are several stages in my description of rust:
1. Surface rust - This is rusty metal that can be restored by surface finishing such as blasting, sanding, coating, filling, etc. It is only cosmetic and the metal is near full thickness.
2. Rusty metal that is thin - This is material that is structurally weakened by corrosion to the point where it may break under applied loads. Making it look good may be possible but it could be functionally dangerous. Fixing it requires cutting and welding in new metal if cracking is an issue.
3. Holes in the metal - This is what people from the East call "rust". People also call it "cancer" or the "tin worm". This can only be fixed by cutting the surrounding thin material away and welding in new metal. Fiberglass patching or other Mickey Mouse cosmetic fixs don't work. Cars in Southern California generally are scrapped if they have cancer.
4. Structurally falling apart - This we call scrap. The part needs replacing. All the other ones near it will have serious problems too.
5. Hidden rust - Any or all of the above is very likely to have hidden rust along with the visible. Hidden rust can include holes in the metal covered by putty, paint, fiberglass, or even riveted-on aluminum sheet. The worst part of rust is the hidden part because it is typically between adjacent parts or underneath something else that first has to be removed. Also you would have never paid that much for the car if you saw the hidden rust!

To answer the question about what I call rust, I would define it as anything except "surface rust" because fixing it costs mucho money (or valuable time in the case of a home craftsman). From what I can tell from ads, many people in the East selling a car use the word "rust" when the car has cancer, but not before.

Thanks Fred for elaborating on what you ment. I'm not worried about surface rust of course, and if there is metal that has become thin or "Cancerous" and is in reasonable ammounts on only a few parts, then I don't think it would be a problem, what I am worried about is rusting to the point of structural failure because that is way to much time to fix.

Time isn't realy an issue for me as I have alot of it. Since I have access to sheet metal tools (forming bending rolling every thing you can think of) I am willing to repair thin metal or holes on up to 25% of the body, and 5% structural but if the frame is completely shot (many holes, large holes, or fractures) I wouldnt be willing to repair that as I dont want to risk my life on my welding ability haha, I would be willing to reinforce the frame with new metal, but not repair it entirely.