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Weren't the 5450 and 5451 8-passenger cars done by Henney?

I'm confused; I thought the 5453 and 2653 were on same (127" wb) chassis as the Patrician, not the lwb/stretch.

There sure is a lot of confusing/conflicting info among some of the third-party publications out there.

When I did the initial work on the pages for the V8s and, later, Packardbakers, in the absence of info from the factory, I couldn't quite trust a number until I could come up with the same info from 2-3 sources - provided corroborating info was available.

Yes, the standard 53 and 54 lwb cars were converted from Patrician sedans by Henney. As I recall, 150 in 1953, and 100 in 1954, divided between executive sedan (no divider window) and limousine. W/o looking it up, I believe all 4 variants were 149 inch wb and had jump seats.

The 1954 Salesman's Data book gives pictures and data on the two lwb cars that year, but doesn't mention anything about factory-optioned Derham treatments on either the standard or lwb cars. But such things were normally covered in letters to dealers.

PS - George Hamlin has owned at least one std factory lwb 54 and one Derham version and has published a few articles on them years back in TPC. I'll give him a phone call and see what I can learn, but I suspect that Packard commissioned Derham to make several of the Patrician sedans and lwb cars on spec., that would have been absolutely consistent with Nance's efforts to upgrade the senior line (like finally making the Caribbean a senior car).

Here is a picture of a 1953 Packard formal sedan by Derham.

1953 Derham Formal Sedan 2653



The model number is in the Kimes book on page 801

John f. Shireman

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Well here are the charts on the '53 and '54 models (from the 52 and 53 SCs).

You will see In '54 there are the LWB Sedan and Sedan Limo listed. Also there is the Sedan-Formal (Derham?) on the Patrician Chassis.

In '53 the LWB are the Executive Sedan and the Corporation Limousine. The 2653 normal wheel based Derham is not listed. But as these charts were produced in advance, the NWB (Normal Wheel Base) Derham Formal Sedan may have been added mid-year or after this was produced.

Now if I am reading this correctly, Dave is suggesting that there the LWB Packard models could also be had in Derham trim. I dont see any evidence that there was a different Body Number for those, but may have just been a special order thing or after sale conversion.

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Ok I think I got all the Chassis, Names and Model numbers straightened out for 1942. Proves you can't go by what is in 3rd party books. Also the factory chart doesnt call out the Clippers by name and the 1529 Darrin is not listed either.

So from my understanding there are were 4 Clipper Models and a Darrin in 1942.

2003 > 1571 160 Clipper Sedan
2003 > 1575 160 Clipper Club Sedan

2006 > 1522 180 Clipper Sedan
2006 > 1525 180 Clipper Club Sedan

2006 > 1529 180 Darrin Convertible

Someone please correct my if I am wrong.

Also there are a host of Lebaron and other custom bodied models that are not on factory chart.

I've checked the Nat Dawes book to see what he had to say about the Patrician Formal Sedans in 53 and 54, #s 2653 and 5453. He indicates that 25 Patricians were shipped to Derham and converted to the Formal Sedan in 1953, but none in 1954. I see the PAC directory lists 2 of 2653 existing, none of the 5453.

I'll dig out the article(s) on the lwb 54s by Derham and if I get any new information there or from a phone call to him I'll edit this post and add the information.

EDIT: There are several articles in TPC about the lwb Derhams, Spring 1974, Spring 1966, and Summer 1989, the last of which has a multi-page spread on the 1954 lwb Derham limo with some great photos, the car is still listed in the PAC Directory. There are several nice detailed photos of the car including the interior. The author sought but could not find much of the original history other than the first owner's name, a Mrs. MacMillan of Boston; it was subsequently owned by the very well-known Packard collector of that era, Tom Mix. The author states the car started life as a 1953 lwb limo, but doesn't state how he determined that, though it's not inconsistent for a vehicle that had a long gestation period. It has all the 54 trim features including the Matalesse nylon upholstery which I don't believe was available in 1953. It has factory AC and is the same car that I pictured earlier in this thread. I think it's nearly certain that the owner commissioned Derham for the conversion and it had nothing to do with a factory-sponsored Derham version of the 54 8-pass limo (#5450), which would leave the 1953 Derham formal sedan on the 127" wheelbase as the only legitimate factory- sponsored Derham of those years. Perhaps some day more information will come to light about the alleged 1955 Patrician Derham.

WRT to 53-54, without specific body number (as is the case with Sedan-Formal vs. the standard Patrician), my gut feeling is that the lwb Derhams were done outside of any factory request.

They could have been built in a small run of duplicate conversions commissioned by a dealer, group of dealers, or even a distributor.

In more recent years, some GM Sales Zone offices have been known to take a batch of cars and have them trimmed-up, post-production, to promote sales. The 1988 Cutlass GT (rwd) is one such example - done in the absence of a factory-production 442 edition that year (though only as an appearance package). However, I can't say for sure that PMCC's Sales Zone Offices had sufficient authority to accomplish something like that, back then.

Nonetheless, the lwb Derhams are an interesting specimen that appear to have been well-executed.

my gut feeling is that the lwb Derhams were done outside of any factory request. They could have executed as part of a small run of duplicate conversions commissioned by a dealer, group of dealers, or even a distributor.

Brian, agreed, as I've read and discussed this with others, it is now quite apparent to me that the 54 Derham lwb was a one-off, commissioned by the purchaser privately with Derham. I'd still like to get the VN and thief-proof numbers, and the Briggs # if it's there, Derham had a habit of removing such details, on the 1940 one-off for Drexel, Lambert, Derham even went so far as to remove the Packard vehicle number plate and substitute their own.

I added the '54 Formal Sedan to the Model List as it's on the factory chart, but I will add a note that there is not evidence that any were ever produced.

A couple of other things I have found looking through all the Factory documentation, SC, STBs, Brochures, and Databooks for the 1951 - 1954 models. Most of which I was aware of but I see people confuse all the time.

The 400 and Patrician names were always used in concert with one another from 51-54. Even back to '51 is was called the 400 Patrician.

51-52 had the 300 Touring Sedan, in 53-54 it was called the Cavalier.

1951 had a 200 Business Coupe. 52-54 did not.

Then Clipper name was never referenced in 51/52. It was always the 200 or 200 Deluxe.

I have seen people reference the "Mayfair Convertible". That is actually incorrect. The Mayfair was specifically the Hardtop, and the Convertible is the Convertible Coupe. I guess because they are on the same "250" Chassis, the assumed they were both Mayfairs. But all the factory specifications refer to them them as Packard Mayfair Sports Coupe and the Packard Convertible Coupe. This is also carried over in many of the brochures.

In '54 the Mayfair was now called the Pacific, but the same rule applies. The Pacific is the Hardtop Coupe. The Convertible is the Packard Convertible Coupe (not the Pacific Convertible). Then of course is the Caribbean Convertible Coupe which were converted from Convertible Coupes. So 2 different convertibles in '53-'54, contrary to casual belief, not every '53 or '54 Convertible is a Caribbean.

1951 was the only year that had the individual "P A C K A R D" letters on the front of the hood. 1952-54 did not.

As far as the rear fender Jet Louvers are concerned, here are the cars that left the factory with them installed:

1951 250 Mayfair - 3 Louvers
1951 250 Convertible - 3 Louvers
1951 400 Patrician - 3 Louvers
1952 200 Deluxes - 3 Louvers
1952 250 Mayfair - 3 Louvers
1952 250 Convertible - 3 Louvers
1952 400 Patrican - 4 Louvers

The Louvers were officially offered as an accessory in 1952 (I guess for the standard 200s, as all the other models had them). They were not officially offered as an accessory in 1951.

Oh one more thing on the Formal Sedan/Derham front. I have seen reference to a 1951 400 Patrician Formal Sedan in 3rd party publication. But they have it listed with the same Body Number as the regular 400 Patrician. So I think this may be another case of a customer special order or after sale conversion by Derham.

I have not seen any references to a 1952 one.

So I will not include that 1951 400 Patrician Formal Sedan in the Model Info unless there is evidence of it in a factory publication.