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Re: 1956 Packard (maybe 1955?) questions
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Forum Ambassador
 
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If post 30 is a question, essentially that. A few minor details of deciding how to use or disguise the extra button and mounting the PB assy since the column is a bit different. Might be interesting and sure would be one mod I don't think anyone has tried yet.
Posted on: 2010/1/13 12:25
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Re: 1956 Packard (maybe 1955?) questions
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Home away from home
 
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Quote:
If post 30 is a question, essentially that. A few minor details of deciding how to use or disguise the extra button and mounting the PB assy since the column is a bit different. Might be interesting and sure would be one mod I don't think anyone has tried yet. Not a question, an agreement. As for the extra button, you could use it for a multitude of uses, oil slick, ejector seat, etc. I also think that the p/b unit could be adapted to other transmissions as well. If I was going to be using a Chrysler 727 for instance, I'd be adapting the p/b unit to that, as next to the torsion level suspension, the p/b unit is the neatest thing a '56 Packard has to offer.
Posted on: 2010/1/13 12:32
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Re: 1956 Packard (maybe 1955?) questions
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Forum Ambassador
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Bill Ruger has a Stutz DV-32 that he took down the street to neighboring Calloway (the Corvette mod people) and told them "this thing is restored perfectly, but the engine just doesn't run right, what can you do"? with the provision that they could not make any un-reversible changes--everything has to be bolt-on, bolt off.
They did, and the car starts and runs incredibly, accorind to accounts. It can be done, it's just a question of how much money.
Posted on: 2010/1/13 15:03
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Re: 1956 Packard (maybe 1955?) questions
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Home away from home
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Timing, at lest on the rotary style pump Eric posted would most likely be controlled inside the pump. The Bosch VE diesel injuction pump, a rotary pump similar to the one picture has a timing advance built in. The ve has a built in fuel transfer pump and when its pressure rises due to increased RPM, an internal piston rotates the cam ring, advancing the timing.
Posted on: 2010/1/13 15:46
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Daily Driver:
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Re: 1956 Packard (maybe 1955?) questions
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Home away from home
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That FI is definitely not a Bendix Electrojector, being a '58 DeSoto owner I'm familiar with Tom White's ex-car, one of about 10 '58 Adventurers originally with FI. There were more 300Ds and a couple of D-500 Dodges also, virtually all were retrofitted back to carbs. Tom found a set on the shelf off another retrofitted car, it was all electronic, originally developed for aviation, and his background as an electrical engineer allowed him to re-engineer and improve on the original circuit design which had capacitance issues. He sold the car about a year ago.
As far as K-Jetronic, it's an excellent FI system, we have several 80s Saab 8 valve (solid lifter unlike the 16v) Turbos that we autocross, and the FI is pretty much bulletproof. But our son the Nuclear Physicist loves complexity and wants to chuck it all for programmable Megasquirt.
Posted on: 2010/1/13 18:31
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Re: 1956 Packard (maybe 1955?) questions
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Home away from home
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You need to introduce your son to the K.I.S.S. principle, it's what I live by.
And yes, I love the K-Jetronic system and think it's the perfect system to adapt to an old car.
Posted on: 2010/1/13 18:35
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Re: 1956 Packard (maybe 1955?) questions
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Home away from home
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Well, I guess after you've worked on the world's biggest Relativistic Heavy Ion Super-Collider (Brookhaven National Labs-RHISC) one's perception of complication becomes somewhat relative
 ... whereas he's all about adapting cutting edge technology to older cars: MegaSquirt Turbocharged MGs and SAABs, I prefer using Packard's 55 yr old cutting edge technology just the way that they conceived it...and I never rode in a car with a better ride than a '56 Packard, plus I'm way too old to go fast!
Posted on: 2010/1/15 17:41
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Re: 1956 Packard (maybe 1955?) questions
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Webmaster
 
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Posted at the request of Roscoe Stelford:
I am the owner of the Executive shown at Branson with the Packard Fuel Injection setup and I would like to ask Turbopackman about his experience with Packard Fuel Injection as he seems to have a question on its authenticity? How many have you seen that you can pass judgement if it is "cobbled together" or original? "I'm thinking it's a collection of parts that someone cobbled together to try and pass off as a factory setup". I acquired this setup in the mid 60's from a person in Detroit who got it from a former Packard employee. This person researched it and confirmed it was made by Packard. In the early 70's a friend from Detroit put me in touch with another person who had some of the files from the engineer who worked on the project. Some of the information covered is listed below Outline on the COMBUSTION RESEARCH PROGRAM from July 30, 1954 Pictures of different types installed in cars and on test stands Graphs on test data on "fishhook results" Reports on mileage and comparison with 2 barrel, 4 barrel and dual 4 barrel manifolds In 1955 they contacted Thompson Products to discuss a tank mounted electric fuel pump under development to run at 6000 rpm and deliver 140 lbs of fuel per hour at pressures from 3.5 to 5 psi and to be installed thru a 4" opening in the top of the tank Many advanced engineering reports about what they were developing for the future. One letter states "Since we have put most of our efforts into adoption of the American Bosch system to the Studebaker Golden Hawk and the Packard Caribbean" A three page outline covering the "Proposed Packard Gas Injection program" Phase I Experimental Phase II Pre-production Consolidation Phase III Production Project Report # 374 from the Advanced Engineering office April 3, 1956 (33 pages)is very interesting it covers "ADAPTION OF THE AMERICAN BOSCH INJECTION SYSTEM TO THE 1956 PACKARD 352 ENGINE" Among other things it says "Some four-barrel production manifolds were cast with injection nozzle bosses using production pattern equipment and making temporary additions for this purpose"  "The two FI systems in the Branson pic I posted and the one in the SIA article, the original b&w picture are two different systems."."I still think this is a homemade unit made to resemble the factory experimentation." yes it is 2 different systems if you look at the SIA picture credit I supplied that picture The picture shows a fabricated manifold with rubber covered steel lines "That's what makes me think that there's a custom made "V" drive under that FI pump that drives it AND the distributor. I need better pics to be sure, but that's what my gut instinct tells me," does this picture help?  "I think that there's more than the pump that's been replaced, as the manifold itself looks like nothing more than a home-modified stock 4bbl intake. The reason I say this is by looking at the injector bungs, they just don't look like anything the factory would do, prototype or not. It just looks really cheaply done, and poorly at that". The following pictures should attest to the quality of the "Injector bungs" The pump is the original we had the broken part machined and replaced. One thing you did not see, the distributor is an X model engineering sample. Hope this helps answer some of your questions. If you have any others I would be glad to try to answer them.  
Posted on: 2010/1/16 2:42
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-BigKev
1954 Packard Clipper Deluxe Touring Sedan -> Registry | Project Blog 1937 Packard 115-C Convertible Coupe -> Registry | Project Blog |
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Re: 1956 Packard (maybe 1955?) questions
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Home away from home
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THe 'cobbled up' look would be typical of STRICTLY Manufacturer R&D.
Altho typical of EXPERIEMENTAL R&D the distributo gear would not hold up very long to actual civilian service. FOr actual production the pump would have been driven from some other more stout power source such as maybe end of cam shaft. Two questions: Is it TIMED FI???? Does it have a backfire valve??? I can post a pic of a backfire valve used on Rochester timed FI ca 1956. There are only two things (probably minor in view of PMCC R&D) that one could possibly be leary of. The distributor gear drive pump and the claim of the tank mounted fuel pump.
Posted on: 2010/1/16 9:38
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VAPOR LOCK demystified: See paragraph SEVEN of PMCC documentaion as listed in post #11 of the following thread:f
packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7245 |
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