Packard Forum Index » Pre-War (1899-1942)

Sorry for the delay in chiming in. Been out all weekend.
My first impression is that it does not look like the work of a professional coachbuilder.
Rollson did not put their body tags on the cowls at this point. It would have been on the sill plate, seen when you open the door.
Rollson did not put individual body numbers on semi-customs like this. So even if it does prove to be a Rollson-modified car, it will probably not have any kind of "body number" under the front seat, as they would have done on their complete custom cars.
I like the look of the V windshield as opposed to the normal flat windshield that Rollson would have installed.

My opinion as to why the 1940 Super Eight would be more desirable than the 1938-39 Super Eights would be in the more powerful engine of the 1940. Otherwise there's not much difference in the cars, save for the grille.

Gusha, regarding Rollson identifying plates, I believe I already mentioned the one under the carpet. Often, perhaps almost always, one is found on the lower right side of the cowl near the lower door hinge; this is pretty much the traditional location for the major coachbuilders. I've also seen one, perhaps 2 Rollsons with their imprint on the rear door sill plates, never the front sills, thats only where the poor chauffeur entered.

If I remember right, Rollson was formed in the early Fall of 1938 from the ashes of Rollston.

With no new information coming to light, I'm more convinced that this car is the work of some local craftsman and not one of the major coachbuilders. That however shouldn't detract from it, it's a very unique and interesting Packard. If it's still for sale at a reasonable price, I think it would make a terrific addition to anyone' Packard stable.

Guscha wrote: "Jim, I kindly ask you to expand your thought."

I think West makes a good point about the 36 ci difference in the two engines. I also think the 40 engine in design and application is far superior and simplistic compared to that of the alloy crankcase engines. I also think the fact that the V-12 was still available in 39 makes the 39 Super 8 second banana as compared to the 40 being top dog. I think many people use the 40's as tour cars. When I looked for a prewar senior car, many people warned against the 39 Super 8 and actually claimed the small 8 was a better car. With some years under my belt in the 39, I think I might have to agree. The 39 Super 8 can be a reliable useable car, but one must remember that spares are a good thing. The head, block, water pump, fuel pump, head gaskets, among many other items are one year, one model only. This too may cause many to shy away. Ironically, as west points out, aside the engine, and more traditional grill, it is the exact same car. I think a 40 would be a much easier for a novice mechanic v. the 39. The 39 seems to at times, require very delicate fitment and repair work.

You make good points, but I don't think that the 356 engine is a good one for novices, either. I've never taken one apart, but we've owned several and it seems that there are few who really know how to overhaul them correctly.

It does, indeed, make a great tour car. Especially if you have overdrive and/or high-speed rear end. I took my car to Nashville and to Hershey last year, and it seems to love to cruise at 70mph. Actually, if I'm not careful to watch the speedometer, the speed is always creeping faster than that.

In regards to the original question about the 1939 Rollson town car: Rudy Creuter told us that they DID NOT number the semi custom cars (front chop only, if you will). However, he was mainly referring to the cataloged 1940-42 cars. On my brother's Rollson town car, the coachbuilder tag is on the sill plates of the FRONT doors, which is where they were put on the cataloged cars for 1940-42.

West, I guess I have to question my memory about the location of the Rollson imprint on the sill plates.

I've rebuilt a 356 and been around a half-dozen others being rebuilt - except for the issue of removing the counterweights to grind the crank, it's not significantly more difficult to rebuild than a 327 or 359 of 1951 thru 1954. No suprises, quite straight-forward.

Dave
You're right. It's not that complicated. However... (and pardon some of my ignorance here on engine terms) we've found that if the block and the crankshaft are not perfectly aligned, you'll be overhauling the engine again not too far on down the road. Evidently this step is often omitted, or only inspected visually. (Is line boring the term I'm looking for?)

West, very interesting insight on the need for align boring (or in all likelihood align honing). I had never herd of block / main journal distortion in that engine family, but definitely something to keep in mind from experience you cite. It is interesting how each persons experience with different Packard engines can vary so greatly depending on the condition, treatment, and service they have received over the last 70+ years. One thing's for sure, it takes very little extra effort to check for that kind of issue, and would save a lot of heart ach in the long run.

I think what I meant about the mechanical differences of between the 320 and the 356 is more along the lines of nuances such as the fitment of new rocker arm rollers when needed (and when available), dealing with the complex oiling system, such as heat exchanger issues, full flow filtration (the replacement elements have not been available for years requiring a $500 conversion) dealing with many pats that have not been available for years such as rod and main bearings (rod bearings again available in .030" but must be finished to desired undersized) which must all be managed by either a competent owner, or farmed out to the competent machine shop. In my opinion, the 356 would be considerably more like engines most machine shops deal with in construction and design. I also think an enthusiast would have a bit of an easier time with the 356 just due to the fact that virtually all pats are readily available and fairly straight forward to install.

These are just my thoughts, and I am not saying a 320 cant be used and enjoyed, as I said, I am getting good service out of mine, and with getting overdrive back in the car, it has really become a formidable highway car. Not quite 70 - 75 as you enjoy in your 40, but that is due in large part to the long 5" stroke and my unwillingness to push it vary hard. My good friend has a 40 180 that we regularly cruised a 70 - 75 and as you said, it had more to go!

Jim

There are always places to cut corners on an engine rebuild; i'd never think of not line-honing the main bearing saddles, or doing a complete balance job, but these and other steps are "optional" to some doing a budget job.

That's why one rebuilt engine isn't necessarily the equal of another.

But we've gotten way off the topic of identifing the coachwork on that interesting car.

While balancing engine components is a normal part of any quality rebuild, and checking main bearing alignment is common, align honing every block rebuilt is unheard of in normal machine shop practice. Perhaps this is a Packard engine anomaly.