Packard Forum Index » Studebaker Built Packards (1957 - 58)

Owen: I take the $30.00 figure as an average of what Packard paid it's dealers to make repairs and take care of complaints from customers for the 1955 Packard's at the dealership level.

The average warranty cost for the 1954 was reported to be $15.00 per unit.


John F. Shireman

Thanks for the clarification, John.

Randy: Toyota has been getting a free pass for years by the automotive press in the US. The government of Japan since WWII has been giving all kinds of help through the back door to companies like Toyota.


As had been stated before they hid problems with their vehicles and did nothing about till. They deserve to get what they got coming to them.


John F. Shireman

Well then we have a problem with the press. Ford, GM and Chrysler have had recalls for numerous dumb and safety-related reasons. I don't recall the head of a dept as LaHood is, want to talk to the president of any company. Toyota and Honda build superior vehicles as compared to USA. And unlike European vehicles they are reasonable to repair. It's all a lot of political BS John, and if you can't see that there is no point in discussing it.

As a matter of fact, I apologize to the forum for bringing it up and will not mention it again.

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Ford,GM & Chrysler have been plagued with recalls for years. The Ford Explorer fiasco, Ford's Stalling problem recall for 1983-94 ignition module recalls, GM's Side saddle tank for their trucks in the 1980's, etc. etc.

Toyota has had some recalls over the years, for rust problems in their trucks, floor mats that would come loose and jamb under the acc. pedals, and now this acc. Pedal/ Brake problem.

There are some who think that Toyota might not have been hammered on so hard by the federal government if they were members of the UAW Union. Currently Toyota only has about 4,700 UAW workers in a plant in California.

The fact that GM and the UAW are hammering Toyota so hard now, and the government being a biggest share holder in GM piling on will be interesting to see play out.

Surely the problem is with the company who made the accelerator pedals, they weren't made (I imagine) by Toyota?

Surely the problem is with the company who made the accelerator pedals, they weren't made (I imagine) by Toyota?.

John, from what I've read the pedals mechanism on the Japan-produced vehicles were made by Denso in Japan, and for the US assembled cars by CTS in Illinois. But it's also been stated that both pedal assemblies while slightly different, are manufactured to a design specification set by Toyota. So if the manufacturer met the specification, I'd guess the responsibility would fall largely back on the firm that designed the pedal mechanism (Toyota).

In any case, logic won't prevail, the lawyers and courts will.

EDIT: Correction, CTS is in Elkhart,Ind., not Illinois.

All:

When I worked for Chrysler as a District Manager, back in the mid-'80s, I learned what a bunch of crap "zero defects" was. It's not what most consumers thought it was. "Defects" occur only when outcomes do not conform to agreed upon objectives. For example, if an item exhibits 10 failures in 1,000 instances and the objective was to have no more than 10 failures in 1,000 instances, then - Yatta! - there are "zero defects". Sounds more like a great way to hide failures, but outsourcing may be an even greater way to try and shift responsibility.

Unfortunately, Iacocca had made a $1M deal on the back nine of a golf course with a fella named Crosby for a quality improvement program to teach us that nonsense, and that waste of money and my time was just one of many reasons I walked away from what some thought was a promising career. Problem was Chrysler needed to start housecleaning with their quality mindset at the top levels of management and with their product, without all that QIP malarkey - especially for those of us who had no hand or say in design, production, or distribution.

You see, the elephant in the room that everyone admitted to, but nobody seemed to address, was the fact that whenever the rate of production quickly rose to meet rapidly growing demand, quality suffered. Chrysler was not alone on that regard back then, but it looks like Toyota finally fell into that pothole. Now, I'm not saying dealers are beyond reproach, but modern CSI surveys and the like merely use the dealer as a whipping boy for the sins of the corporation.

Yet, when I returned to the mainstream car biz, with GM, back in 2003, I was appalled at the number of late-model vehicles that came into the shop "on the hook" - a lot worse than when I worked in a GM store back in the early '80s.

In the meantime, while friends with late-model Hondas and Toyotas only had to take their cars in for oil changes, my POS '98 Monte Carlo, which I purchased brand-new, had repeated brake problems that went unresolved until I fixed 'em myself with aftermarket parts, and the intake had been resealed due to oil/coolant leaks THREE times in less than 40K. Admittedly, the third reseal was because a pushrod fell out after the second time - perhaps dealer incompetence. Still, I should have put one of those old "I'd Rather Be Driving a Packard" bumper stickers on it!

The only reason I keep driving that car, to this day, is because it's cheaper to keep fixing it than making a car payment for anything newer. I've actually saved a lot of money that way.

Meanwhile, I see where the Chevy Cobalt is being investigated for a electric power steering issue - where some cars have even changed lanes by themselves. Even before that, my insurance agent had warned they were raising rates on those cars due to their less then satisfactory risk experience with them.

As alluded to in another thread, all this fly-by-wire technology for motor vehicles is just plain nuts. I hope to never own one so-equipped - no matter who makes it.

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Agreed, but get used to it because it's here to stay & will come eventually to all. Unless you plan on Packards and older used forever, don't think there will be a choice. Once initial outlay is done, it costs a fraction to produce a million chips and necessary related components that will do many things for many years vs a mechanical piece which will do one for maybe a few. I can't see the manufacturers staying mechanical that much longer when they're trying to cut costs to the bone and share components to the max.

Same thing happened in my industry. I was amazed & couldn't reason why when x-ray equipt started using microprocessors to control things that a few switches & relays had done previously--I remember the first system I saw used nine processors on 3 pc boards just to run some table movements of all things. Of course, those 3 boards took the place of many components, a lot of wire & replaced an entire cabinet -- & could be used on several models with just a chip change for different functions. The space and cost savings were obvious so once over the shock, got used to it. Good thing I did because only having 9 to think about were the good old days.

Believe I read the Prius has around 80 for all it's functions.

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I hate to admit this but at least some of the pedal mechanisms were built by the CTS Corp. plant in Missisauga Ontario.