Packard Forum Index » Post-War (1946-54)

My `53 Pat has a light knocking at idle which seems to go away with increased revs. It had started out fairly faint and has gradually increased in volume. It's only been driven maybe 50 miles since i bought it . Initially sounded like a water pump or p/s pump but listening w/ a stethescope doesn't support this. Plus, the water pump appears new(er). The noise now seems to be coming behind the p/s pump, maybe around cyl's 2-3. We also listened with the stethescope to the block and couldn't verify the noise this way.
Anybody have any thoughts on this mysterious noise?
We are wondering if a wrist pin or bearing cap is loose, and it's likely we're going to have to take the engine down to get an accurate diagnosis. Luckily I've got the time, if not the inclination to do this. Can anyone offer any tips or tricks for rebuilding this engine if we have to get that far? Thanks, Gary

Most likely timing chain if it has one. Try feeling the chain thru the fuel pump hole. Someone else more familiar with the 8 will have to comment on how to easily check the chain.

A clack sound at idle only is usualy wrist pins if not timing chain.

Also check the oil fill tube to make sure it has not pushed down too far into the block. This a problem found recently by other 50's Packard8 owner. Not sure if it applies to your Packard 8 or not.

Another thing I have found is that the fuel pump can make the same kind of sound. These pumps use a spacer around the bolts and if they are missing and the bolts loosen, the pump can move away from the cam and cause a knocking sound. These bolts can loosen themselves through use. That's why Packard used safety wire on these bolts. It's an easy check just take the pump off and see if the fuel pump holes are considerably larger than the bolts. If they are and the spacers are missing replace them and your noise may go away. Hopefully, this is the problem. It's a cheap fix.

Thanks for the info, will certainly check these out first! gary

You didn't say if the knock was at cold idle or hot idle; if the latter and the idle oil pressure is on the low side, I'd suspect excessive clearance on a rod bearing. Easy enough to confirm by dropping the pan and using Plastigage to check clearances. If it's only one rod and the crank throw is not out-of-round, excessively worn, and still nice and smooth, new bearing shells or a 0.001" undersize rod bearing can often save the day.

I hope it's one of the other simplier candidates mentioned above which surely should be evaluated first.

It does not appear possible to drop the oil pan with the engine in the car (in the 327). can someone confirm or this or not? OD, as far as your question, it certainly is as cold idle, with 35 psi oil pressure and remains as the engine warms up, where the oil pressure drops to around 30 psi. thanks, gary

Gary, you can certainly drop the oil pan with the engine in the car. It's close quarters over the front crossmember and you may have to put a jack under the vibration damper and lift a bit to relieve the engine weight on the mounts to get at several of the forward bolts, and thin fingers certainly help! Once the pan is loose, you may have to rotate the crankshaft a bit for the pan to clear the counterweights.

Your oil pressure sounds reasonable enough, any idea what kind of mileage is on the engine and what kind of care it received over the years?

I can confirm you can drop the oil pan on 51-54 with the motor in the car. As Dave said it take a little maneuvering. First you have to drop the lower bell-housing cover to get to the rear pan bolts and give you clearance.

Now you wiggle the pan out as Dave stated, but it is easier if you drop the steering cross-shaft out of the way. What I did was use a 2x4 wedged between the engine crossmember and the sway-bar, with a floor jack to lift the front of the motor by dampener. Jack in up as much as you can (or the rear transmission mount will allow). That should allow you to get access to the pan bolts that are obscured by the crossmember. Then with all the bolts removed and the pan broke loose, you can then wiggle the pan out towards the rear of the car.

Then you can scrape all the old gasket off the bottom of the block. Make sure you clean out the oil pickup while you are in there.

On reinstall, cement the gasket to the pan and let setup, and then apply normal sealant to the top of the gasket. The gasket cement will keep the gasket in place while you giggle the pan back into place.

Kevin & Dave, thanks for your info. I'm football player sized so I'm fresh out of thin fingers...but getting the pan off w/o removing the engine is great news.
As far as the care of the car, it has 66k miles, and is in really good shape. It came with various paperwork, receipts and memorabilia from the past. So, the several PO's have likely been good to it. It supposedly has a new head gasket, does look like it has a new H20 pump and does run like the proverbial Singer sewing machine, lights off w/ the touch of the key etc. There is no other mention or info of major powertrain work however.
Another question I have is, were these car equipped with a floor starter? Mine has a 2 postion (plus accessory) ignition switch, merely off, and ignition, and a momentary pushbutton mounted under the dash for the starter-This button starter has obviously been added later as it was wired by breaking into one of the existing looms. thanks, gary