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Now that the Packard 1948 To 1950 book is finished and in print I am stirring up more trouble. I moved from the 23rd Series to the 24th Series cars and am starting with a little research on the 250 series convertible and Mayfair. An interesting pair since they were late comers to the line and were not introduced until February of 1951. They first hit the dealers with four "portholes" in the rear fenders and then shortly lost one (you can't have more than the Patrician, after all) and ended with three. There is even a story that a few VERY early ones got sold with no grill teeth and no portholes at all. That story appears to be a bit on the shakey side, but we shall see. There is no doubt that there are pictures of such cars, taken of the prototypes, but no verification thus far that any actually got in customer hands.

I am looking for VIN numbers of cars and their "porthole" count, three or four. There are lots of convertibles in the owner registry but no one seems to list the VIN number of their car. Sad, because this site would be a good research tool if VIN and engine number, and even firewall number and Briggs number, were listed. Without this information they become just and group of pretty cars as far as the historian is concerned. No numbers - no information.

I hope this thread starts a new trend, at least for the 24th Series cars, and owners start listing number information. This site has a very significan number of surviving Packards listed. It would be nice if it could be put to good historical use as well as the restoration help, etc. it now provides. Owners comonly ask me "how many were made like mine?" Packard did not record production by body until 1953. So if the owner wants answers he must not keep the numbers associated with his car a secrete. We historian are not magicians, just researchers chasing information and putting it together to form a story with answers.

Robert Neal RJNeal0000@aol.com

Robert - unfortunately I don't have a 250, but last winter I bought a book at a little used book store in Billings - "The Packard 1942-1962" by Nathaniel T. Dawes, published in 1975. Inside of the book were three polaroids of a 250 convertible. Someone took the photos with no license plates so I don't know if the car was here in MT. Trying to track it down with help from the really old car guys in town. I'll let you know if I find it. But anyway, note that it has three portholes.

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David, glad you got a copy of the Nat Dawes book, I've had it since it was first published and refer to it often; the appendeces in the back and particularly useful. I've also had the pleasure of meeting Nat a few times, last at the Gettysburg PAC National, he's quite the character.

Bob, I look forward to whatever your findings are, those are interesting cars. As I know you realize, any current or even older photos of the two models may be of doubtful value as regards the fender louvers ("portholes"); dealers and owners seemed to find great delight in adding/deleting them. On another note, I just heard the other day that another large cache of original Packard factory photos has been "discovered" and I've been asked if I want to participate in reviewing them - if I do I'll pay special attention to any such photos of the 250s.

PS - thoroughly enjoyed the 1948-50 book!!

Robert,

A few pic's of a '51 Convertible, the owner of which is a PackardInfo member. I'll contact Barry and I'm sure he'll supply the info for his car.

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Thanks for the notes posted so far. Yes Dave, I guess some dealers and owners did do things with the portholes, but I don't think that will pose a problem in research. For one thing, the VIN would most likely be so far out of range with other recorded cars that one would rule it out but also the location of the portholes would most likely be odd in one that was modified. The spacing is not the same on 3 and 4 hole versions. To change from one to the other would require filling old mounting holes and drilling new ones and repainting the repairs in order to be in the proper location. An item certainly not done by the owner who wants to add a hole and not likely something a dealer would have been requested to do. Robert

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Is it me, or does the style of portholes look different?

Also a word of caution. Some of the pictures posted in the archive here from the Detroit Public library are listed as "prototypes" or "pre-production" and some obviously are, but were not labeled as such. So sometimes you see items and styling in these pictures that did not make it to the actual production line.

Would be interesting if there is info on whether there was overlap but top photo with 3 more pointed end is mostly shown in photos as being the 52-3 style, bottom photo with the 4 more rounded ends is generally shown as 51 style. If they are both the same year, then an observation or question as to louver overlap. If different years then note the hood ornaments with upright wings. Didn't the wings dip for 52 or was the upright version still available.

I can find it at the moment, but I remember that in the past I had put together a post with a listing of what models and what years had portholes and how many each had based on the factory letters and parts listings.

Found it:

packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb ... ic.php?post_id=45028#forumpost45028