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Re: Advice from those in the know on 1949 Super 8 Coupe
#11
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bkazmer
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The cormorant was optional but available. The sun visor is aftermarket - the factory option one doesn't have the hinges on the sides, curves to the drip rail. Overall looks nice, the two trim changes noted while not original blend in pretty well.

Let's see the interior!

Posted on: 6/30 6:42
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Re: Advice from those in the know on 1949 Super 8 Coupe
#12
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Fish'n Jim
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If you go to the side bar and click on "model info" you can see all the variants.
Autos derived from horse carriages. The early motor vehicles were adapted carriages with an engine added(horseless carriage). So terminology is carry over; Cabriolet, Landaulet, etc. Coach builders often converted to making auto bodies as the need waned so the terminology followed. They used coach wood framing in the early/pre-war bodies.
Sedan is an old term that referred to many things, including a chair, but when adopted for autos after turn of century, usually means it has separate engine, passenger, and cargo compartments. Too vague/general to be of use in naming, even that was adapted generally to differentiate 4 doors v 2 doors. I guess they were not happy with 2 door or 4 door in marketing.
A coupe (Fr) was a horse coach for two with an outside driver so it's also adapted, not how autos appear. A business coupe usually has a pass through or extended deck to the trunk for storage or sleeping. In the US 4 doors => sedan , 2 - doors => coupe or 2 dr sedan even though they're all sedans? A lot of that genericism came from "coupe de ville" which is widely misunderstood.
Packard seemed to prefer the club sedan for 2 doors with back seat but sedan for 4 doors. 2 door & two passenger were "P" coupes. eg; GM used sedanette for two door (club) "sedans". Brand variants.
I think some people never really liked the bath tub styling, so they personalized them to meet their tastes as this one has been over time. The rocker trim is 22 but the belt spear side is later, and none had both. Custom tail trim, etc., it's not a "good example", per se. aka, bargaining chips.

Posted on: 6/30 10:07
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Re: Advice from those in the know on 1949 Super 8 Coupe
#13
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packardtaximan
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Without seeing the serial numbers my thoughts are 22nd series 1949 Super 8 Deluxe with added mid side trim. The egg crate grill front and rear, tail lights, bumper guards, 327 engine, and what appears to be the 127 inch wheelbase indicate Super 8 Deluxe. It lacks some trim of a Custom 8. Just my observation.
Beautiful looking car.

Posted on: 6/30 10:07
Packardtaximan
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Re: Advice from those in the know on 1949 Super 8 Coupe
#14
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HH56
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Quote:

Jim in Boone wrote:
23rd series mid-49 began the oval taillights and the chrome on the side moved from the bottom to a point higher on the side although I thought I remembered it going the full length of the side. The wiper knob moved from the dash to the steering column, rear window was a bit more squared off across the bottom.

I grew up with dad's 49/50 coupe/2 door sedan, his was the more basic model with the 288.

Beautiful car.


In addition to the wiper knob move, the wiper motor also moved. That one being toward the drivers side is another indication of a 22nd series 48-49. 23rd series 49-50 moved the wiper motor to the center under the hood prop mount.

Posted on: 6/30 10:27
Howard
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Re: Advice from those in the know on 1949 Super 8 Coupe
#15
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packardsix1939
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Many years ago, I owned a 1949 (22nd series) Super 8 Club Sedan, Model Number 2275-9. This was a California black plate car (the old CA plate was still in the trunk) that had had a complete engine rebuild. In the early 1970's a former owner had driven it from California to Connecticut. He kept a journal of his trip that was included when I purchased the car from a subsequent owner. According to the journal, the car performed extremely well on the journey and hit some pretty impressive speeds on the interstate while delivering respectable gas mileage. I owned the car for a few years and can attest that it was a lively performer. The combination of the larger 327 CI engine in the shorter 120-inch wheelbase made it a true factory muscle car, a concept (big engine in a smaller, lighter body) that would go on to dominate the auto industry in the 1960's. I ended up selling it because the car just needed too much work to bring it up to the level I wanted. The interior was in especially poor condition. Below are some pictures I have of the car. The first photo was taken in front of the Connecticut State Capitol building in Hartford, CT at a car show in the early 1990's.

I see several things wrong with the car posted by HH56, some of which have been noted by previous posters, including the incorrect 24th-26th series tacked on front fender trim. It will be difficult to correct this as I assumed the person responsible had to drill several holes in the fender and door areas for the mounting clips. Ditto the Custom 8 trim on the rear panel, though I rather like the look of this addition. The engine, however, does not look correct. The air cleaner on the Super 8 models went horizontally across the top of the engine. The 1948 Super 8 Convertible Victoria I later owned had the same engine. We would need to know the engine serial number to verify, but I suspect that the engine might be a 288 instead of the 327. HH56 did not include any interior photos, but a correct 22nd Series Super 8 would have the wide pleated seats as seen in the interior photos of my car. The interior in my car, although badly worn, was totally original. The less expensive Standard 8 and Deluxe 8 models had much plainer interiors than the Supers.

Hope this helps. I'm also attaching photos of the 1948 Super 8 Convertible Victoria that I owned from 2001 to 2008. It was a beautiful Packard, but it had so many problems that I finally decided to let it go and did not own another Packard for a number of years. But this does bring back some happy memories.

Attach file:



jpg  49Super8ClubSedan1.jpg (614.24 KB)
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jpg  49Super8ClubSedan2.jpg (1,032.22 KB)
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jpg  49Super8Conv.jpg (662.89 KB)
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Posted on: 6/30 11:23
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Re: Advice from those in the know on 1949 Super 8 Coupe
#16
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Max
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Thank you all for the replies with valuable information.

I will update the first post adding some of the missing info plus interior pictures.

The VIN starts off with 2275-9 xxxx

According to seller info the engine is a 327ci original to this car. Zooming in to one of the engine pictures is there is a 327 imprint showing on the top of the head. I will have the engine number shortly.

I learned the sun shade is a Fulton brand after bkazmer mentioned it was an aftermarket.

The interior is nice. Headliner and dash is supposed to be original while seats are redone. Carpet, I do not know.

Supposedly the “electric” clutch and overdrive are working as they should. I am not familiar with how they are supposed to work but will read up on the info pasted on this site.

I do not mind a few trim items being incorrect or added for appearance preference as long as tasteful and period in appearance. I could live with side trim although would have preferred not to have it for correctness but especially would not remove if its been drilled into the fender and doors. I would like to better understand the tail lights. Are the the correct rectangle ones with the additional cosmetic grill added or are they supposed to be the oval units.

What I do not want is a “Frankenstein” car.

Again, thank you all so far.

Max

Posted on: 6/30 13:43
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Re: Advice from those in the know on 1949 Super 8 Coupe
#17
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HH56
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Quote:
Supposedly the “electric” clutch and overdrive are working as they should. I am not familiar with how they are supposed to work but will read up on the info pasted on this site.


If you have an early owners manual the OD and EC might get a mention but typically options were not well covered in the owners manuals but more relied on a separate page or booklet. Early manual info may be for the R9 OD which was replaced a few months into 22nd series production by the R11 OD you have. The two units do the same thing but are completely different in how they do it. Early 22nd series manuals which had the R9 info could have been provided R11 info by a supplemental page or an instruction card hung on the gear shift lever. Pages or cards may have disappeared over the years.

EC is in a similar situation but has a longer time spread. While they ultimately do the same thing there is a big difference in components and operation between the pre and post war EC units. EC was first introduced in the 41 models and there is an introductory description of the prewar unit in the January 15, 1941 Service Letter. If covers the basics of operation but when that article gets to the details of what and how each item works, unless you just want to know the details for comparison with the later unit it is best to skip on. The postwar unit is considerably refined and simplified so does not have a lot of the prewar components.

Prewar units relied primarily on electrical switches and solenoids for each gear to modify the engagement speed and strength for the various conditions. In the postwar unit there is only one solenoid to cut the vacuum on or off to enable or disable the unit. Modification of strength and speed was done entirely mechanically by a multi stage valve in the control unit operated via linkage from the accelerator pedal.

For the postwar unit Packard provided just bare info in the operators manual. For details, probably the best information will be in the training manual entitled "Clutch and Electromatic Clutch". There is a photo and operation details of each component so you can see if your unit still has all the necessary pieces. After Packard went away, if the EC was non functional, frequently items were removed and discarded if something would be easier to service without an EC component in the way. https://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/dow ... AndElectromaticClutch.pdf

Posted on: 6/30 15:51
Howard
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Re: Advice from those in the know on 1949 Super 8 Coupe
#18
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packardsix1939
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HH56. As your serial number begins with 2275-9, it is the same model as the green Packard I posted pictures of. The rear of your car should look like mine; flat rectangular taillights with no chrome ornamentation between them. The 22nd series ran from September 1947 through April 30, 1949. The 23rd series Packards, introduced on May 1, 1949 to coincide with Packard's Golden anniversary, have the oval pod-shaped taillights. These cars were produced through August 1950, after which, they were replaced by the all new 24th series cars. As your engine is apparently a correct 327 CI, your only engine compartment problem is the incorrect air cleaner. I don't think that it would be too difficult to replace the unit if you so desire.

I'm attaching a picture I took many years ago of 23rd series Standard 8 sedan belonging to my friend Bob who had a large Packard collection (see car in upper right corner). Unfortunately, Bob was more of a hoarder than a collector, and most of his cars were not in running condition. This car had belonged to his wife who drove it daily in the 1950's and 1960's. At some point, the car had stopped running and was just parked in his barn. By the time this photo was taken in the early 1990's, his wife had passed away. Bob himself passed away in 1994. I went to his service and none of his family members seemed very interested in hearing any stories about Bob's cars. A nephew inherited the collection (Bob and his wife never had any children) who promptly sold everything off. I tried to talk the nephew into keeping the 1937 115C Business Coupe (upper right picture), but he wouldn't hear of it. It was one of Bob's nicer cars and it was a great runner. Car was solid too, not a speck of rust and an a really nice original interior.

In the lower left corner, you can see a collection of NOS 22nd Series Custom 8 cloisonné wheel covers. Bob had piles of stuff like this. Bob had worked for Packard in the 1950's and was in Detroit when the East Grand Boulevard plant closed down. Bob told me horror stories of 50-gallon-drums loaded with brand-new parts being carted off to the Detroit landfill. Bob saved what he could and ended up bringing several truckloads of NOS parts back to Connecticut. He made a good side living for years selling his stash at Hershey and other swap meets. Once, I had a 1951 200 Club Sedan with a bashed in rear bumper. Bob sold me a NOS one for only $75. He was a great guy and loved our cars. Even though he's been gone almost 30 years, I still miss him sometimes.

In the lower right photo, you can see one of Bob's favorite cars, his 1956 400 hardtop. Bob bought this car new in 1956 when he still worked for Packard and owned it until his death. It was his daily driver well into the 1970's. Bob had several other V-8 Packards in his collection, including a 1955 and a 1956 Caribbean convertible. He also owned three 1939 V12s. If anyone is interested, I can post more photos of Bob's collection.

I just remembered that Bob had a 23rd series Standard 8 Club sedan, so I've posted a picture of it (second photo, lower left). Again, note the pod taillights. This car was completely gutted to restore an extensively rusted out 23rd Series Super Deluxe Convertible Victoria. The entire floor pan of the Club Sedan was cut out and welded into the Convertible, a massive undertaking. Bob later sold the partially completed convertible as his health was failing and he could no longer work on his cars. Not sure where this car is today, but it was shaping up to be a real beauty. The other cars are some of Bob's other parts cars, he had several in his yard. Note the 1949 23rd Series Super 8 Sedan in the lower right corner.

Attach file:



jpg  37_115C_50Stnd8_56_400HT.jpg (1,070.47 KB)
225503_62be1f522a036.jpg 3300X2550 px

jpg  PartsCars.jpg (1,098.87 KB)
225503_62be1f63a6e2e.jpg 3300X2550 px

Posted on: 6/30 17:13
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Re: Advice from those in the know on 1949 Super 8 Coupe
#19
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DavidPackard
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Max;

I like your car . . . care to trade?

Your vehicle model information of 2275-9 xxxx indicates a 22nd series automobile sold in 1949. As Ross indicated that model designation is for a Super Eight Club Sedan. See the Model Information section of this site for more detail.

You have just a bit of 23rd series trim installed . . . be not anywhere near a ‘Frankenstein’ car. Look in the Model Information section, specifically the 23rd series entries. I think you will find the upper fender spears that are likely installed on your car.

Go back to the 22nd series and look at any model with the word “Custom”. That’s the trim near your rear tail lights. The lights appear to be correct. Navigate to the Photo Archive section and select 22nd series. There will be many examples of the Custom trim near the tail lights . . . and the trim for the Eight and Super Eight models. It looks like your car has Eight/Super Eight trim on the trunk lid, and Custom Eight trim at the tail lights . . . no big deal . . . don’t break-out the torches to storm the castle. Given the sales numbers for the 22nd series that trim could have been installed by the dealer at the direction of the soon to be the proud owner. By mid 1949 all of the parts on your car would available over the Packard parts counter. Consider that the front fenders could have been changed 70 years ago, for some other reason, and the problem statement was nothing more than ‘Do I fill the holes, or install the different trim?”.

Now for the photos you initially posted; I see a few blue hoses on the left side of the engine bay, and a bracket holding a hose end close to the battery . . . What are those? Something to think about when the weather tempers your driving enthusiasm; 6 volt cars do much better with stout battery cables, with crimped, or better yet soldered ends, and I believe ‘all black’ insulation was the standard for both cables. Also if you have a photo of the front of the car showing the details of the grill and bumper please post.

dp

Posted on: 6/30 19:20
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Re: Advice from those in the know on 1949 Super 8 Coupe
#20
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packardsix1939
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Max. Good luck with your car. Hope you get a lot of enjoyment out of it and hope you found the information in my posts to be of interest. If you could post some pictures of your interior, I could take a look and see how it compares to the Super 8 I owned all those years ago.

Posted on: 6/30 20:18
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