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The one thing that people tend to forget that in the small towns that Packard dealerships were located in they sold to the middle class. They sold the 120's and the six cylinder models.

My late friend Brad Berry who owned a Packard dealership here in Jersey Shore hated Buicks with a passion. For the longest time I could never figure out why he had such a dislike for Buicks. One day when we were at a car show I asked Brad why his dislike of Buicks. He then kindly explained to me that in the small town of Jersey Shore the Buick dealership was the main competition for him, his father, and mother when trying to sell new Packards. Brad never really considered Caddy to be a main competitor to Packard.

John F. Shireman

John, Very good point. Packard after 1935 sold mainly into the middle class with the 120 and Six judging by the number of "senior" cars produced vs. the 'juniors". As a kid I remember seeing a few Packards in my working class neighbourhood and as I recall all were in the Buick price range models.

As Rusty O'Toole explained so well, Chrysler tried to market Imperial as its own brand, starting in about 1953. It became a division of Chysler, and was advertized as "Imperial by Chrysler" to reinforce the idea that the Imperial was not just the "big expensive" Chrysler model.
They elevated the Imperial to a fine status by 1955, Virgil Exner's "100 Million Dollar look" styling helped incredibly. Lincoln really pulled ahead with the 1961 Contential, Sherwood Engel's masterpiece at Ford. Those clean slab sides and starburst chisel grille made for the perfect antidote for the Baroque extremes of the late fifties styling. Look at Lincoln's numbers pre-1961 and post. The '58-'60 bizarre "aircraft carrier" Lincolns had a very specific appeal.
Chrysler never really made money on Imperial, despite the fact that for years they were really well made cars, and were carefully built. They came closest to any Chrysler product of having a real automobile body, the introduction of the 1957 "forward look" bodies marked a significant departure for Chrysler in terms of the quality of their bodies. Prior to '57 the engineering of Chrysler bodies were designed (under the skin) by Briggs and were sturdy and up to the quality level of the competiton. After the 1953 acqusition of Briggs by Chrysler the entire job of desiging and fabricating the entire automobile was "in house", the last of the big three to take control of all aspects of the "major pieces."
The 1957-on bodies (for the entire line) took a giant leap backwards in quality under Chrysler's ageis, and continued to be until the grand influx of management talent from Ford came to Chrysler under Lee Iacocca. Everything they designed from the ground up (K-car, its deritives and later cab forward LX models) were finally back on par with the industry.
I have always found it funny that Chrysler was referred to as "the engineering company", a reputation earned by their excellent engines and transmissions. But to me General Motors and Ford illustrated complete mastery of engineering the entire car. GM bought Fisher Body in the 20s, and Ford weaned themselves from Murray body (and others)by the early 50s (while designing and building their own bodies as well).
One retired Chrysler engineer had a saying "we made some of the best components in the industry and some of the worst cars."
Chrysler continued in what became an antiquated business model (by 1950) by farming their body design and (partial) manufacture to Briggs, although it did result in a higher quality product.
Did Packard buyers go to Imperial? I think the others addressed this well, the point about what a Packard buyer was in 1956 vs the buyer of 1930 was decidedly different. Packard wasn't making as many top-level cars by the end, a trent Jim Nance was trying desperately to correct. Compare the 1951 model line up to the 1956--they did a lot of catching up.
One thing I have always contemplated about Lincoln and Imperial is that under the hood there is an engine that also was used in a truck, schoolbus chassis or downmarket common-man product, Packard and Cadillac had engines that were designed and built only as a luxury car power plant, that's it, that's all.
The Lincoln and Imperial engines had differences in some innards, but in the end they were still one-size-fits-all corporation engines. Lincoln got into the game of "all of the parts in the Lincoln engine are the parts that were found in inspection to be absolutely to spec", this engine was made from the hand-picked "best" parts. SO, if I buy my wife a Lincoln, and I buy a F-250 for my business and they both had a 460, am I getting the "C student" engine?
They rolled out a protoype Imperial at Chrysler while I worked there (2007) and at one staff meeting the VP of PR told us "the Imperial got the green light."
One old-time employee turned and said to me "we'll lose our shirt again."

Hi

Mr Pushbutton, you make a point I had never considered before, the quality of bodies after the folding of Briggs into Chrysler. The poor overall quality of the '57 and later cars is well known. Was this the result of major changes in the body engineering management?

The reason I posed the question initially stems from hearing stories of those who told of trading their '53-'56 senior Packard models for Imperials in '57-'62.

When ask why they chose Packard:
"Cadillac is too flashy, too common, owned by the new rich"
"Imperial is better engineered and built"
"Imperial is the type of car Packard would be building if they still were in business"
"Lincoln? When they learn to build a real luxury car, I'll think about one"

And some comments not fit for a gentlemanly forum!

Steve

Packard53. u have a private message from me.

Imperial was a seperate division in 1955.

Elwood Engle (not Sherwood) designed the 1961 Lincoln Continental and 1964 Imperial.

The 1961 Lincoln did not massively outsell the 1958-60. All sold around 25,000 - 30,000 per year. Imperial's sales were about even with Lincoln in the late 1950's - 1960's. Lincoln sales did not begin to pick up until 1965. The Mark series would outsell Cadillac's Eldorado from 1969-79, but the Deville/Fleetwood always outsold the Continental.

Imperials were body on frame unlike other Chrysler products of the time. In fact Imperials from 1957-1966 are the most sought after cars for demolition derbies. So much so, that they are outlawed in most derbies. They are not outlawed from or wanted for demo derbies because of poor body quality.

If Buick was Packard's main competition in the 1950's, that means that the buyers of more expensive Packards left for Cadillac even before 1957. Hence the continual increase in Cadillac sales postwar. No one came close to Cadillac's sales in the late 1950's to 1960's, so even if a few people bought a Buick or Chrysler because they thought Cadillac was too flashy, it certainly didn't hurt Cadillac's sales.

One thing that really does irritate me about Lincoln is that it says "Ford" all over it. Ford on the valve covers and other assorted places under the hood, on the radio, on the door sills, even the demostrator tape that came with the car says "Ford". On a Cadillac, everything says "Cadillac" or at least "body by Fisher", which sounds more impressive than "Ford". I think that is more irritating than sharing an engine with a Ford pick up.

One minor point. Imperial never shared engines with lesser Chryslers unless you call the New Yorker lesser.

Until 1950 New Yorker and Imperial were Chrysler's only straight eight cars. Starting in 1951 they got the Hemi V8 while the cheaper Royal and Windsor models kept the flathead 6.

In 55 they brought out a Polysphere V8 for the cheaper cars. This engine though based on the hemi, was distinctly different in appearance and smaller in displacement and power.

For 57 and 58 they made the blockbuster 392 hemi beloved of top fuel drag racers, and still exclusive to the New Yorker and Imperial.

59 saw the new B and RB engines throughout the Plymouth, Dodge, DeSoto and Chrysler lines. But even then, the Imperial and New Yorker got a 413 cu in version shared with no other cars.

It wasn't until 1966 and the advent of the 440 that the Imperial and New Yorker engine was offered in Plymouth and Dodge performance models.

One thing that bothers me is the idea that Packard cheapened their image by building cheaper cars instead of the hand built luxury models that made them famous.

In the first place Packards were not hand made. They were not a small back street outfit they were a major industrial concern with all modern mass production facilities.

In the second place all luxury car makers brought out cheaper mass produced models or went out of business.

Lincoln dropped the senior models for the Ford like Zephyr. Cadillac dropped their slow selling V12 and V16 models, then dropped the LaSalle and replaced it with a cheaper Cadillac.

Pierce Arrow went out of business as did Stutz.

Chrysler led the parade by bringing out the Airflow. This was the car that was roundly hated for showing up the old style luxury cars as obsolete in the new streamlined art deco world.

So what happened to Packard? Why did they take the rap for doing what everyone else was doing?

I've tried to figure this out for years. All I can come up with is cobwebs and hot air.

Cadillac had the best promotion, advertising, and image building. Even though a lot of their claims were pure bull, it worked.

Packard advertisiing was more honest but less glamorous. Somehow Buick and Cadillac pushed ahead and the public became convinced that buying an independent make was to settle for something second rate.

Around 1953 the whole country turned their back on the independents and I have never been able to figure out why.

Can you imagine a 1957 Imperial body with a 374 V8 and torsion level ride? That's what Packard might have had if they bought the Briggs body company when they had the chance.

I think Packard did cheapen their image by offering lower priced cars. In the 1930's with the depression, everyone either had to offer cheaper models or risk going out of business. The difference is, Packard kept offering cheaper models after WWII when they were no longer needed. Every automaker could sell whatever they built after so many years with no new cars. Plus, Packard dropped all of its senior models and based everything on the Clipper. So from 1946 on, there was very little to visually distinguish more expensive senior models from the cheaper ones. So why would you want to pay $4000 for a car that didn't look much different than a $2000 one?