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Thanks Ernie. I tried again this weekend but without success.

I first attempted to remove the right side floor sheet that goes between the engine and the chassis rail. Even this seemingly simple task proved problematic because the steering shaft makes it incredibly difficult to get a hand or spanner on to a couple of the nuts inside the chassis rails. Without them being held the bolt nut assemblies just spin in unison while turning the bolts from underneath. I gave them some penetrant and left them for a later attempt.

Back to the sump (oil pan). I sharpened a selection of sneaky thin scraper blades on the bench grinder, and armed with these and a rubber mallet I went back under. No joy. I couldn't find anywhere that I could sneak a blade more than 1-2mm into the gap. I didn't try a huge amount of brute force with the mallet... maybe I should get more physically persuasive with it next time. In the first picture below you can see the beads of sealant compound used previously. Under the black oil it comes out as an off-white softish stuff. I didn't just use the little razor blade shown; I had a couple of quite stiff and substantial paint scrapers that I was able to thwack with the rubber mallet, but didn't get them any further in than the blade shown.

I left it to reflect about it until next session... thinking more and more about the inevitability of a full removal and rebuild with professional help.

The lack of progress with the sump was a bit disappointing, so I decided to finish the session with some low-hanging fruit; scraping more of the caked mud and grease from the undercarriage. Gathered a very satisfying pile of dirt, but left mulling over what the future holds for the engine.

Thanks all. John

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John,

Davids suggestion of "you may try heating the flange with a heat gun" could help. Just be careful with a naked flame in an area where grease, oil and fuel are present. have a fire extinguisher at hand. Plus don't be too gentle, not too fine a blade which could flex, and use a real hammer.

EDIT - Might be overkill for an extinguisher with a heat gun!

I wonder if you could insert your putty knife to start or keep open the spot you were able to make and then use a long thin extended blade like the one on this utility knife to reach in and start cutting the adhesive. This blade extends about 4 inches and perhaps heating the end of the blade would also help cut whatever is holding the pan. Downside to this type knife is the blade is snap off and somewhat prone to break if flexed but it might work if careful. If not, maybe there is a more solid blade along the same lines available in your area.

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Thank you gentlemen, will do.

In today's mail arrived the Membership Directory and 2015-2016 Handbook of The Packard Club. Of course I flicked through the short list of Australian members and found listed a member just a couple of hundred metres from my home in Launceston! The member lists a 1917 2-25 Seven Passenger Touring Car and a 1939 1700 1282 Touring Sedan. I'll reach out and make contact; maybe next weekend.

J.

Another 2 cents worth, seeing the pictures of the caked mud its possible the previous owner used something to really seal the oil pan to keep dirt and mud out.

I think you might try and identify the type of adhesive(s) that was used. Is it soft or pliable or hard and can you chip a piece of it off? Looking at the stud and nut, it appears to have a softer material while the outside has a hard coating.

May see if you can pull the soft material off the stud and nut. Then see if you can chip or scrap some of the material off the crank case. It might be that a silicon or PVC adhesive was used first when the pan was reinstalled and then a hard sealer like hardening Permatex was applied at the seam of additional protection.

I might try some brake clean or straight acetone applied with a small paint brush to see if the hard material becomes soft.
Once the outside hard coating is removed the softer adhesive should give way cutting, heat or prying.

This is very interesting. Thank John for keeping us informed.

Additional thought just came to me, what if that outside substance is a roofing sealant? It might react to some diesel and heat to make it soft, then scrape with a knife.

Thanks Desk Driver. Yes it is quite soft and pliable, and a bit crumbly when you pry off the protruding beads of it. I think I need to get more assertive with the sump; perhaps I've been too gentle so far. You've all given me good ideas to progress with it next time; heat, solvent and extra muscle. I'll let you know how it goes, but it won't be for a few days.

In the interim a small parcel has arrived from this site's "Phil From Tassie." My car is missing two end bolts from the beautiful sculpted door hinges. Just a small cosmetic detail but still important. Phil visited several weeks ago, and took one of the remaining ones home. Look what he's returned to me! Two perfect little replicas he whipped up on his own lathe. Thanks, Phil!

Cheers, John

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John/Mal, I have been away, my suggesting a while back to try heat was to use an electric high temperature heat gun, they are not expensive at Bunnings. I certainly would not be using a flame.
Hopefully your present efforts will succeed and for what its worth I once fitted the sump (pan) on one of mine with one of the products advertised as a gasket substitute. I had to remove it some years later and had nearly as much difficulty as yours but it did come free eventually with the aid of a thing scraper tapped in around the edge but it did not give up with out a fight.
Looking forward to a successful report!
David

Good Morning John...As I look at the sump (oil pan) on your Packard, I think that I would try a big piece of timber held directly against the side by a helper and then wack the timber really hard with the rubber hammer. I have done this on a few old machines and had it work. One time all that happened was that I cracked the timber, but did not do any damage to the sump. In that case, I came out the next morning and the damn thing had fallen off by itself! Go figure and good luck. Ernie

It's off!

Happy to report that the sump (oil pan) is off after today's session. Thanks to all who gave advice, including a couple of useful off-forum messages in addition to those posted here. I incorporated all the advice ; a bit of heat, a bit of solvent, a bit of strategic wiggling of thin blades followed by careful insertion of thicker blades and an increase in carefully applied muscle. It was the extra muscle that eventually did the trick. I just gradually increased the force with which I whallopped the numerous wedges. It came free in the nick of time as the evening sky was darkening and I was being summonsed to finish for the day.

I can't post the pictures directly from the iPhone, have to resize them and change the file names to make them comply with the sites' needs, that might occur tomorrow or Tuesday. When I do I'll be grateful for further advice on all the things I should check, inspect, measure, clean, recondition before the sump goes back on. To my untrained eye it all looks good; but I don't really know the subtle signs and symptoms to look for.

Looks like there was no gasket, just a thick deposit of two kinds of adhesive, the white soft stuff previously described and some darker shellac stuff.

Catch you all soon, and thanks again for your interest.

J.

followed by now for some