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Re: Robert
#21
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Robert
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Quote:

HH56 wrote:
If you do not find a round knob next to the on/off switch -- or something similar under the dash edge -- as shown in this install illustration you probably do not have a manual overide switch -- at least not the factory version. There have been many variations of the switch and circuit installed by owners -- some properly and many not. Some of the incorrect versions have bypassed the limit switches and resulted in damage to the compensator or transverse bars when the mechanism traveled too far.

The factory switch has 3 positions and is not spring loaded. Many times an owner has found the rear end stuck up in the air refusing to come down and suspected TL issues. Turned out that the manual override switch had been accidentally bumped and since it is not spring loaded, switch stayed in the raise position keeping the car rear up. If you do not find a switch then that is not your problem but if you do find one it could be that simple.


I do have the knob as well, as luck would have it! I also learned the door glass is surprisingly easy to remove last night.

Posted on: 2022/3/18 9:04
- 1956 Patrician
- 1990 Miata - V8 swap under construction
- 2021 Civic Type R
- 2012 Yukon Denali - to tow the other three around
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Re: Robert's 56 Patrician
#22
Quite a regular
Quite a regular

Robert
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Quote:

Leeedy wrote:
Ahhhhh...

RE: suspension: Packard Torsion-Level suspension is an entire world away from air suspension, air springs, GM air shock levelizer, etc.etc. A whole world away. Get familiar with the Torsion-Level suspension (1956 flavor) at your earliest convenience. Like apples and grapes. You'll be happy you did, rather than try to do analysis first and learn later.

RE: the brake light switch... Don't wait until you get into the brakes to look at the brake light switch. It does far more than just brake lights. The reason I pointed out checking this component is because it has deep interaction with the suspension. If the stop light switch is the wrong kind or is not working properly... the suspension will not work properly. Can't have one without the other. Packard Torsion-Level suspension was very, very advanced... and for instance had anti-dive and anti-squat functions. Something even many advanced cars don't have even today! These features run through the brake light switch. Whatever is wrong, you want to take the load off of the torsion bars at the rear. Having them torqued-up all the way like this for extended periods is hard on the torsion bars and can cause damage to the bars or other components. Like standing with your elbows locked, straight-armed for extended periods, holding up a weight... that's what it is like to the Packard.

• RE: skirts... No special hardware is required. Just one single, simple hex-head bolt. If these are missing, they have been reproduced in stainless steel by a region of the Packard Club.

• RE: BTV... As I said, it is typical for these to go bad, even just from sitting unused over extended periods. Again... yank it... rebuild it or replace with a good one. And as I mentioned, I never used a power bleeder or an assistant to bleed my own Packard V8 brakes, because of the tool I made. But I am sure a power bleeder will work nicely for you. Yessss, I know all about the Miata. I wrote the original factory shop manual for it. Wrote the Owner's Manual too. And I was responsible for doing the original New Model Training program for North America and English-speaking countries. I also did other things on the car and was an early test driver. I drove it both at Myoshi, Japan and in the USA.

• RE: reverse gear on the push-button Ultramatic... Strongly suggest that you contact Mr. Pushbutton who posts on here and get his input on your system. Mr. Pushbutton is the pro from Dover when it comes to this subject. As pushbuttons age, they are sometimes prone to certain issues– many of which result purely from users not understanding the operation and best methods to care for the systems. Decades ago I developed my own methods for easing stress on Ultramatic pushbutton operation.


I think my friends and I would be interested in hearing any tales you have from the Miata development and launch, given your unique perspective. I'm in a Facebook Messenger group chat that currently owns at least 19 Miatas, probably more. Almost all NAs and NBs.

Posted on: 2022/3/18 9:08
- 1956 Patrician
- 1990 Miata - V8 swap under construction
- 2021 Civic Type R
- 2012 Yukon Denali - to tow the other three around
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Re: Robert
#23
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Leeedy
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Quote:

Robert wrote:
Quote:

Leeedy wrote:
Ahhhhh...

RE: suspension: Packard Torsion-Level suspension is an entire world away from air suspension, air springs, GM air shock levelizer, etc.etc. A whole world away. Get familiar with the Torsion-Level suspension (1956 flavor) at your earliest convenience. Like apples and grapes. You'll be happy you did, rather than try to do analysis first and learn later.

RE: the brake light switch... Don't wait until you get into the brakes to look at the brake light switch. It does far more than just brake lights. The reason I pointed out checking this component is because it has deep interaction with the suspension. If the stop light switch is the wrong kind or is not working properly... the suspension will not work properly. Can't have one without the other. Packard Torsion-Level suspension was very, very advanced... and for instance had anti-dive and anti-squat functions. Something even many advanced cars don't have even today! These features run through the brake light switch. Whatever is wrong, you want to take the load off of the torsion bars at the rear. Having them torqued-up all the way like this for extended periods is hard on the torsion bars and can cause damage to the bars or other components. Like standing with your elbows locked, straight-armed for extended periods, holding up a weight... that's what it is like to the Packard.

• RE: skirts... No special hardware is required. Just one single, simple hex-head bolt. If these are missing, they have been reproduced in stainless steel by a region of the Packard Club.

• RE: BTV... As I said, it is typical for these to go bad, even just from sitting unused over extended periods. Again... yank it... rebuild it or replace with a good one. And as I mentioned, I never used a power bleeder or an assistant to bleed my own Packard V8 brakes, because of the tool I made. But I am sure a power bleeder will work nicely for you. Yessss, I know all about the Miata. I wrote the original factory shop manual for it. Wrote the Owner's Manual too. And I was responsible for doing the original New Model Training program for North America and English-speaking countries. I also did other things on the car and was an early test driver. I drove it both at Myoshi, Japan and in the USA.

• RE: reverse gear on the push-button Ultramatic... Strongly suggest that you contact Mr. Pushbutton who posts on here and get his input on your system. Mr. Pushbutton is the pro from Dover when it comes to this subject. As pushbuttons age, they are sometimes prone to certain issues– many of which result purely from users not understanding the operation and best methods to care for the systems. Decades ago I developed my own methods for easing stress on Ultramatic pushbutton operation.


I think my friends and I would be interested in hearing any tales you have from the Miata development and launch, given your unique perspective. I'm in a Facebook Messenger group chat that currently owns at least 19 Miatas, probably more. Almost all NAs and NBs.


I'm not on Facebook and never will be. And since this is a forum dedicated to Packards, I'll have to stick to discussing Packards rather than Miatas.

However, I will tell you that my name and contributions oddly have never, ever even been mentioned in the history of these cars. Despite all the work I did on them. And I was in on the car from the beginning. I was with the corporation for nearly 20 years. I even wrote the original glossary for product planning and engineers both in the USA and Japan for what we were coding as "LWS" (yes I still have it along with piles of other things).

Poser people who lie and have been aggrandized and who even have fervent fans today often did little or nothing at all! With all due respect, there are people autographing books and being featured guests at Miata-fests who did what? Zero. Some have even taken credit for my work and ideas, many of which went into Miatas (like the removable hard top you seem to have). I am ignored despite the fact that I walked the first five down the assembly line in Hiroshima. And the primary development was done at my office in California. Mr. T. Hirai, Chief Engineer was a good friend –even if I seem to have slipped from his memory. Success always has a thousand fathers.

This is about all I can say here, despite there being plenty more left unsaid. But I will show you a few photos to prove I am who I say I am and did what I say I did...

Attach file:



jpg  MiataModelFromHiraiToLeon copyWM.jpg (194.09 KB)
1249_62349ae90667a.jpg 1920X1440 px

jpg  MiataLotusBadgeEtcWM.jpg (472.91 KB)
1249_62349ba015fe2.jpg 1920X1440 px

jpg  MiataGlassWindoCycleTestLeonWM copy.jpg (289.97 KB)
1249_6234a3c998107.jpg 1799X1207 px

Posted on: 2022/3/18 9:52
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Re: Robert's 56 Patrician
#24
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Packard Don
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On the full schematic that Howard posted here, I see that the motor connections are labeled A and F for Armature and Field. I thought that a Field connection was only on a generator while these motors were more like a reversible starter motor so wouldn’t they both be different windings of the same armature?

Posted on: 2022/3/18 16:57
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Re: Robert's 56 Patrician
#25
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HH56
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As is mentioned in some of the descriptions of the compensator, to keep development costs low they used a stock Autolite generator as the starting item. There is a brief mention of using a generator in the SAE article and more details of what was changed in another article. The case and end was used as is so would have the regular stamped A & F labels but then received different windings. The rest of the conversion consisted of a modified armature and a new front end casting for the armature support and mount to the compensator.

Posted on: 2022/3/18 17:17
Howard
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Re: Robert's 56 Patrician
#26
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Leeedy
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Quote:

HH56 wrote:
As is mentioned in some of the descriptions of the compensator, to keep development costs low they used a stock Autolite generator as the starting item. There is a brief mention of using a generator in the SAE article and more details of what was changed in another article. The case and end was used as is so would have the regular stamped A & F labels but then received different windings. The rest of the conversion consisted of a modified armature and a new front end casting for the armature support and mount to the compensator.


Understood about the compensator motor. And known.

I have seen and owned a lot of 1956 Packards over the years. However, I have seen only one of these manual suspension controls in a 1956 Packard. One. And the one I saw basically amounted to an additional power antenna switch mounted vertically under the left-hand side of the instrument panel with a Clipper-style knob attached to it. The operation was the same as the power antenna: push... the suspension went up; pull down, the suspension went down. The switch I used was indeed spring-loaded and defaulted to a center position of "off."

I have the original Packard Service Counselor issue from when this control was introduced. However, this manual control as far as I know was only introduced as a dealer-installed accessory kit. Optional, at extra cost and at the customer's request. Not as standard equipment. S-P was bleeding red at that point and certainly in no position financially or labor-wise to add another line-installed component. They were already having line problems at Conner as it was. I have no information indicating this kit was a line-installed component at Conner.

So. Is there someplace where the company actually says this kit was factory-installed?? Thanks.

Posted on: 2022/3/19 17:39
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Re: Robert's 56 Patrician
#27
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Packard Don
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These were always dealer or owner installed from a factory kit and, while the switch resembles that of the power antenna, I understand that it’s different internally.

Posted on: 2022/3/19 18:31
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Re: Robert's 56 Patrician
#28
Quite a regular
Quite a regular

Robert
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The window replacement was easier than I expected. While I have the door panel off, I'm going to address the loose exterior door handle. There is slop either in the studs on the door handle itself, or the lock plate has been damaged. I think shims behind the lock plate should straighten it out.

Attach file:



jpg  20220318_124130.jpg (206.25 KB)
225400_62366844baf21.jpg 1920X909 px

Posted on: 2022/3/19 18:33
- 1956 Patrician
- 1990 Miata - V8 swap under construction
- 2021 Civic Type R
- 2012 Yukon Denali - to tow the other three around
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Re: Robert's 56 Patrician
#29
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Packard Don
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The door handle’s retainer may have lost its “spring” and might need replacing with a new one.

Posted on: 2022/3/19 18:36
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Re: Robert's 56 Patrician
#30
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HH56
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Quote:

Leeedy wrote:
Quote:

HH56 wrote:
As is mentioned in some of the descriptions of the compensator, to keep development costs low they used a stock Autolite generator as the starting item. There is a brief mention of using a generator in the SAE article and more details of what was changed in another article. The case and end was used as is so would have the regular stamped A & F labels but then received different windings. The rest of the conversion consisted of a modified armature and a new front end casting for the armature support and mount to the compensator.


Understood about the compensator motor. And known.

I have seen and owned a lot of 1956 Packards over the years. However, I have seen only one of these manual suspension controls in a 1956 Packard. One. And the one I saw basically amounted to an additional power antenna switch mounted vertically under the left-hand side of the instrument panel with a Clipper-style knob attached to it. The operation was the same as the power antenna: push... the suspension went up; pull down, the suspension went down. The switch I used was indeed pring-loaded and defaulted to a center position of "off."

I have the original Packard Service Counselor issue from when this control was introduced. However, this manual control as far as I know was only introduced as a dealer-installed accessory kit. Optional, at extra cost and at the customer's request. Not as standard equipment. S-P was bleeding red at that point and certainly in no position financially or labor-wise to add another line-installed component. They were already having line problems at Conner as it was. I have no information indicating this kit was a line-installed component at Conner.

So. Is there someplace where the company actually says this kit was factory-installed?? Thanks.


Don't believe I said the manual switch was standard but if I did somewhere, it was a slip. In post 18 on this thread I said it was a late arrival and an option. Whether the factory actually installed any on cars ordered fully optioned out before leaving the factory I could not say.

The factory switch was not spring loaded or like an antenna switch though. It has a definite up or down position which once the operator moves it to raise or lower the car stays in that position to continue the action until either the operator places the switch back in the center position or the limit switch stops the motion at the upper or lower limit. The switch is also somewhat unique because it is not a type used anywhere else. When moved out of the center or normal position it has a sort of safety circuit that cuts the voltage coming from the brake light switch supplying the control switch thus preventing the control switch from trying to move the car back to level at the same time the operator is trying to go in a manual direction.

There have been many non factory types of switches used when manual drive has been installed by owners. The antenna switch is common but I have also seen pushbuttons and toggle switches. Many of the home brew circuits connect directly to solenoids and completely bypass the limit switches allowing damage to occur when a heavy hand drives the compensator too far. Another issue is without the unique switch that has the "safety" built in it also behooves the operator to remember to manually turn the suspension off. If he does not as soon as car leaves level and the time delay is over the control switch will try to move the car back to level in the opposite direction the operator is going and usually blows the fuse.

Posted on: 2022/3/19 18:45
Howard
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