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Re: 1936 Junior 120B
#31
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BDeB
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Is the throwout bearing what you are talking about? It slides on the housing at the front of the transmission and has a small spring that pulls it back when the clutch is released. The pictures show it in two different positions.
If not this one, then it is the pilot bearing that Eric mentioned.

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Posted on: 2009/12/7 16:34
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Re: 1936 Junior 120B
#32
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James T Axman
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it's not the throwout...so the pilot bearing it is.
Thanks Guys !
The inner race circle of the bearing is frozen to the shaft and the outer race spins. when you go to pull the tranny out, the pilot stops abruptly at the disc and won't budge....I hate to say what we used to pry, but it was 2 rusty spare rear axle shafts - great pry bars (:)

Posted on: 2009/12/7 18:21
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Re: 1936 Junior 120B
#33
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Eric Boyle
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I was assuming it was the pilot bearing that's the problem because of this sentence:

Quote:
A bearing on the very end of the shaft is frozen and will not budge (preventing us from pulling the tranny and shaft out).


I've never seen a pilot bearing stick to the end of the input shaft, but I have had a few that were stubborn to remove from the crankshaft.

If you get a stuck pilot bearing, and don't have the correct slide hammer to remove it, there's a trick that's cheap and easy to do. Fill the cavity behind the pilot bearing full of grease, and using a drift/socket with a reversed bolt head/anything that will seal the grease and handle a hammer blow to hammer into the grease. You'll have to add a little grease a couple of times, (maybe) but eventually the grease will pop the bearing out since it's not compressible. I've done this several times and it works every time.

Posted on: 2009/12/7 18:23
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Re: 1936 Junior 120B
#34
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Owen_Dyneto
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Eric, I'm not sure how you'd use your method as, if I understand it correctly, the transmission input shaft is rusted into the pilot bearing, along with the rest of the transmission.

Posted on: 2009/12/7 18:26
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Re: 1936 Junior 120B
#35
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Eric Boyle
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You are correct, my method is for the bearing being stuck in the crankshaft only, I posted the info in case someone needs it eventually.

Posted on: 2009/12/7 19:55
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Re: 1936 Junior 120B
#36
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BDeB
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Suggest that you soak the t/o bearing, spline shaft and pilot bearing with PB Blaster or other and try moving the transmission back and forth to free up the t/o bearing sleeve and the clutch disc splines, then using the entire transmission as a slide hammer to get the pilot bearing off the end of the input shaft.

Posted on: 2009/12/7 21:39
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Re: 1936 Junior 120B
#37
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flackmaster
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I'm gonna ignore the use of the spare axle shafts as prybars. Suggest you read prior forum contributions regarding toasted axle shafts and bearings.
As for the pilot bearing, if I understand correctly, it has siezed to the end of the tranny input shaft, and you can move the whole assembly back to the clutch disc. Interesting. Usually, its the pilot bearing stuck into the flywheel. Well, anyway, I agree that heat and PB blaster or whatever works for you is the right track. Using the tranny as a slide hammer sounds too brutal to me. The 2 cents I hereby add is to not worry about destroying the pilot bearing - its a cheap and easy to obtain bearing, current number 7109.

Posted on: 2009/12/8 0:03
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Re: 1936 Junior 120B
#38
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BDeB
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Quote:

flackmaster wrote:
Using the tranny as a slide hammer sounds too brutal to me. The 2 cents I hereby add is to not worry about destroying the pilot bearing - its a cheap and easy to obtain bearing, current number 7109.


I agree that using the transmission as a slide hammer seems a bit brutal but it sounds like the bearing is stuck pretty firmly on the input shaft. I was thinking that this might be a way to break it loose.

A gentler method would be to get 4 lengths of 1/2" threaded rod, coarse thread and about a foot long and thread them into the bolt holes in the bell housing with 2 nuts on each rod between the bell housing and transmission. One of the nuts would be used next to the bell housing to lock the rod in place and the other used next to the transmission to apply tension. Gradually tightening each of the 4 in sequence might provide enough force to pull the input shaft free from the bearing.

Posted on: 2009/12/8 1:58
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Re: 1936 Junior 120B
#39
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Eric Boyle
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I foresee a damaged clutch disc with these methods.....

Posted on: 2009/12/8 4:14
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Re: 1936 Junior 120B
#40
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James T Axman
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to me, part of the enjoyment of owning an old car, is understanding its past history. When we buy these cars, in most cases, we are the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, etc owners (or caretakers) in the line and its not possible to trace prior ownerships. When an old car is handed-down to relatives, often the receipts and stories are passed-along. This car was last registered in Michigan in 1954. The original owner has since died and the car probably sat in a garage for 40 some years. It's a shame that some relative didn't have an interest in getting back on the road. Then it sat another 13 years in the previous owner's garage (who had 13 other cars waiting for work) before I purchased it in June 2009. When I bought it for $5K, I was mostly interested in the rust factor, figuring the mechanicals could always be renewed or replaced. I remember the clutch pedal depressing with no problem and the brakes were totally frozen. Since then, I have rebuilt the master cylinder, new lines, and have new wheel cylinders (they were toast). recently I removed the tranny inspection plate while cleaning the underside and noticed a few clutch disc pieces in the basket. Good thing this was picked up before everything was reassembled. The first plan was to remove the tranny ONLY....I can only imagine how aggrevating that would have been (knowing the problem hanging it up now). With the absence of fenders, radiator, engine gas lines and electric lines to contend with, removing the entire engine with tranny was best idea at this stage. This is my first (and probably last) attempt (of many cars previously)at a full body-off restoration. My last car, a 1951 mercedes was in decent shape, fun to drive, but annoying and nagging that many things (especially the frame parts) needed work. I had given thought to one day out in the garage, tearing it completely apart from ground 0...but probably lacked the motivation, but more importantly, realized the cost versus value factor. Although it takes a long time, methodically attending to every need of the car, in my opinion, is the only way to get true satisfaction. It's fun to scheme and plan, buy replacement parts, tell stories, sit there in the garage looking at it and trying to decide what's next. When I an unable drive it anymore, I will pass along all receipts and descriptions of the work down to the next owner...maybe a relative. Moral? enjoy your experiences with these cars while we are the caretakers. Endure the problems with satisfaction of resolve. Solving the problem is a story to tell over pancakes and sausage. Posting the solution, with the help of guys on this site, who have "been there and done that" will help others in the future. Big Kev has given us the means. I hope to start the engine (first time 53 years?) this spring, meanwhile there is plenty to do. Next up> Sometime, next week, the cutting torch will remove the pilot bearing, the tranny will be separated, the oil pan will be cleaned, the rear main seal (asbestos?) will be replaced, a new pressure plate, clutch disc, bearings, will be replaced. The engine and tranny will be re-joined, and put back in the car...and all the areas where these items reside, will have been thoroughly degreased, cleaned and repainted. Is this fun or what?

Posted on: 2009/12/8 5:25
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