Packard Forum Index » Post-War (1946-54)

On the ramp or departure angle, the 1951-54 60 Special used a 5 inch longer rear overhang than the Series 62 and its greenhouse was moved forward relative to rear axle by 4 inches, necessitating a 9 inch longer deck that I think Pontiac also used for its long deck coupe.

I've modified a '52 Patrician (with great appreciation to its owner) with a 5 inch longer hood, deck and wheelbase. Matched with a '52 60 Special on top and '54 60 Special on bottom, with all cars to same scale and rear axles positioned at same horizontal location, one can see the relative differences in rear overhang. The '52 Caddy appears to be a few inches shorter than the Packard while the '54 Caddy is a tad longer. By the late 50s, hard to tell but it appears rear overhang increased even more on the largest American cars.

I guess the question becomes, if a guy scraped his tail backing out his new 60 Special was he more likely to say: "Damn! I should have never bought this car" or simply "Damn!" then proceed to buy a new 60S every few years. If that car's steady sales are any guide, I suspect the latter.

Coupe DeVille from 1952 on had the same long overhang as 60S and we know how strong it sold.

One thing that is obvious from the images is that the Packard is much more long hood/short deck than the Caddies. That's just my personal preference. Never liked the shorter hood and cab-forward proportions of the Sixty and CDV.

Attach file:

---

  (52.17 KB)

IMO your workups look so much better on the Senior platform than on the Junior platform, especially the rear fender.

I'm a bit conflicted on the rear deck "issue." For the time , a bigger car may have been better received. But it's nothing but bad for vehicle dynamics - more weight, added far from the center of gravity.

The Cadillac "Park Avenue" in the 60's went the other way - essentially a shorter rear deck DeVille to be less unwieldy in the city

The shorter deck on the Park Ave is more practical but I get the impression it didn't sell, else would have been retained. To survive, it was on Packard to sell what the market demanded. For the Contours the market told Packard to let its hair down. Instead, Ferry kept most of it up in a bun. To Packard's credit the hood-below-fenders was modern, and to my eye the car's overall surfacing was very good.

The '41 LeBaron Sport Brougham, with its wonderful design details and proportions, was available for design inspiration in early 1949. So were the Darrins. Since Packard was copying everyone else, why not copy itself too?

I agree the instrument panel was far too plain, passable only with '51 Patrician trim but even then wanting. Cadillac wasn't stellar in these years but much more interesting than Packard. Am not sure the I/P ruined the Contours, there was nothing Medusa or Cyclopes staring at the driver. Packard did get the steering wheel right, had been doing that in their sleep for years.

On the grill, hard to believe but Cadillac basically kept the same one for the entire '50-53 cycle. And they kept the same bodies except for addition of long deck CDV in '52 and Eldorado in '53. Packard freshened its grill minimally but smartly in '53.

As to how to afford unique front fenders, hood and deck for the Seniors, I mentioned a suggestion in #1. Packard need not have invested much more to get two distinct lines.

Attach file:

---

  (77.77 KB)

Looking at that long hood on the maroon Patrician next to the Cadillacs and thinking about the comments some of you made questioning hood length, realized that 5 inches might be too much. So begins the process of backing off. Design is a game of inches so we begin by taking one inch off. Now we are really aligning with GM... Cadillac adding 5 inches to 60 Special's rear overhang and Buick adding 4 inches to Series 70's hood. I think the change makes the Seniors look more balanced, though at the expense of some front drama. With 9 inches still being added to Patrician, overall length remains plenty competitive with 60 Special. I like it.

Also fiddled with the grill insert on the blue car. Never thought the Buick vertical bars were right for Packard especially when Cadillac should have been the target.

Attach file:

---

  (51.97 KB)


  (141.99 KB)

Big Boy still looks good too, now on 139 wb.

Attach file:

---

  (95.92 KB)

The Sport models are helped too, see images. Were looking too torpedo'ish up front.

List below is where I'm at for 1951, the 131 wb 4D Hardtop Sedan and 139 wb Hardtop Formal Sedan/Limousine being bonuses had Ferry experienced an epiphany, else would have been on Nance to get them in for '53 or '54. Each series represents a price bracket.

200 Series - $2500 - 122 WB, 209.75 OAL, 62.6 OAH, 288 CID, 135 HP - 2D Sedan
200 Series - $2550 - 122 WB, 209.75 OAL, 62.6 OAH, 288 CID, 135 HP - 4D Sedan

300 Series - $3000 - 122 WB, 209.75 OAL, 60.5 OAH, 327 CID, 150 HP - 2D Hardtop (sectioned)
300 Series - $3150 - 122 WB, 209.75 OAL, 60.5 OAH, 327 CID, 150 HP - 2D Convertible (sectioned)
300 Series - $3000 - 127 WB, 214.75 OAL, 62.9 OAH, 327 CID, 150 HP - 4D Sedan
300 Series - $3200 - 127 WB, 214.75 OAL, 60.5 OAH, 327 CID, 150 HP - 4D Hardtop Sedan (sectioned)
300 Series - $3750 - 127 WB, 214.75 OAL, 62.9 OAH, 327 CID, 150 HP - 4D 8-Pass Wagon

400 Series - $4000 - 126 WB, 221.75 OAL, 60.5 OAH, 400 CID, 190 HP - 2D Hardtop (sectioned)
400 Series - $4150 - 126 WB, 221.75 OAL, 60.5 OAH, 400 CID, 190 HP - 2D Convertible (sectioned)
400 Series - $4000 - 131 WB, 226.75 OAL, 62.9 OAH, 400 CID, 190 HP - 4D Sedan
400 Series - $4200 - 131 WB, 226.75 OAL, 60.5 OAH, 400 CID, 190 HP - 4D Hardtop Sedan (sectioned)

500 Series - $5000 - 139 WB, 234.75 OAL, 62.9 OAH, 400 CID, 190 HP - 4D Formal Sedan
500 Series - $5200 - 139 WB, 234.75 OAL, 62.9 OAH, 400 CID, 190 HP - 4D Limousine
500 Series - $5200 - 139 WB, 234.75 OAL, 60.5 OAH, 400 CID, 190 HP - 4D Hardtop Formal Sedan (sectioned)
500 Series - $5400 - 139 WB, 234.75 OAL, 60.5 OAH, 400 CID, 190 HP - 4D Hardtop Limousine (sectioned)
500 Series - $5950 - 139 WB, 234.75 OAL, 60.5 OAH, 400 CID, 190 HP - 4D Convertible Phaeton (sectioned)

Attach file:

---

  (54.22 KB)


  (55.77 KB)

Here are the 139 wheelbase Formal Hardtop Sedan and Convertible Phaeton listed in post above (1954 models shown). Much was available to Packard for not much more investment. They did need to run their own body shop though. Ferry needed to get that in-house for 1951.

What happened to Packard's stamping presses during and after the war? Were they still in Packard's possession and could they have been used for the 24th Series?

Attach file:

---

  (127.44 KB)


  (124.12 KB)

Hi Steve - am guessing you found the big hole in proposed line-up a few posts back... the competitor to the Cadillac Series 62 sedan!

We know the Patrician didn't sell well against the car despite similar pricing. To do better, only thing I can think of is a sectioned hardtop version of 300 Sedan. In highest of its two trims would have equaled the 62's $3500 price and carried the 9 main bearing 327 with 155 HP, as would all the uplevel versions of the 300 Series. Wondering if the 200 Series Deluxe cars could have carried a 9 main bearing version of the 288, with an even 140 HP.

Have added the hardtop sedan to the earlier list. Note the image below still calls for 200's taillights. I think it would have been important for Packard to maintain series discipline here, else the 300 would have cannibalized too much of the 400. And this fender style would have been the one shaped and tooled for the shorter rear overhang.

Note also the long list of 500 models. The actual sales of these cars would have been a footnote for Packard but the brochures would have carried pages and pages of images explaining each in detail, so that the person considering buying a 200 or 300 would have been thinking he was buying into something much bigger than his own car.

Attach file:

---

  (32.00 KB)

Hi

Paul's proportional explorations clearly demonstrate management badly undersized the Contour Patricians to affectively compete with any Cadillac beyond the basic Series 62 sedan, though it was still important to have a car to challenge it in size and price. During Contour development, they apparently benchmarked overall length to best its 215 7/8" but only by an 1 7/8", barely noticeable. While the Series 62 sedan was their best seller, luxury cars then were all about body style choice as well length. The 60 Special was priced 17-20% higher than the 62 sedan, a good premium but immeasurable prestige.

"The '41 LeBaron Sport Brougham, with its wonderful design details and proportions, was available for design inspiration in early 1949. So were the Darrins. Since Packard was copying everyone else, why not copy itself too?"

Narrow, chromed window frames may have been more costly to build but they made an immense difference in an elegant appearance. The best example is the '49-'51 Lincoln Cosmopolitan compared to the standard Lincoln with its shared Mercury body. The Cosmopolitan's ponderous styling is somewhat redeemed by its elegant greenhouse. 1940-'48 Lincoln Continental coupes all feature those chromed frames imparting almost a hardtop look, light and airy. A number of the design concept clays by Reinhart and staff had those chromed frames; see Mr. Neal's Packard 1951 To 1954, Chapter 1. We can only surmise when it came to tooling costs decisions, stamped, full-door construction won out for their lower unit cost.

Instrument panel design was important to create a luxury impression, after all, it was where the owners spent the majority of their time. Looking at a plain-Jane dash panel didn't help the owner feel his money was well spent. Succeeding the 23rd Series, which has a rich-looking dash, Contours needed something much more appealing. Even the Kaiser and Chrysler had padded dashes, the former one of the best, so too should have all Packards.

"The Cadillac "Park Avenue" in the 60's went the other way - essentially a shorter rear deck DeVille to be less unwieldy in the city."

A short-decked luxury car was an idea out of its time. The '61 deVille Town Sedan was a hastily-contrived, midyear-introduced response to the '61 Lincoln Continental: 215" vs. 212.4 respectively. Only 3,756 Town Sedans vs. 26,415 Sedan deVilles for '61 could have been a first year anomaly. For 1962, an effort was made to broaden the appeal: 62 Town Sedan: 2,600; deVille Park Avenue 2,600. The numbers suggest this was a managed effort, limiting the stamping commitment. One more try for 1963: only as the deVille Park Avenue: 1,575: time to throw in the towel. Pricing wasn't an issue, each year identically priced to the long-decked which sold in multiples quantities by comparison. Maybe Cadillac buyers expected a price discount for less sheet metal.

Its worth noting the '61-'63 Lincoln OAL didn't come from a shortened deck but an "intimate" accommodations. The lack of rear seat legroom was the most frequent complaint by Continental owners, a situation corrected for 1964 when 3" were added to the wheelbase, all of it to the rear doors and rear legroom.

Paul's full line of properly-sized Patrician premium sedans, hardtops and convertibles would have done just what Nance strived to do later: put the public on notice that Packard was back in a big way, committed to bringing them motorcars they would be proud to own and brag about.

Steve