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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
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JWL
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Kevin, maybe this was suggested earlier, but why not get the shoe linings ground to the drum diameters? This is a common procedure to do and a good shop should be able to fit the linings to the drums. The correct lining to drum contact and a proper adjustment will ensure good braking.

Posted on: 4/23 11:11
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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
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kevinpackard
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Quote:

JWL wrote:
Kevin, maybe this was suggested earlier, but why not get the shoe linings ground to the drum diameters? This is a common procedure to do and a good shop should be able to fit the linings to the drums. The correct lining to drum contact and a proper adjustment will ensure good braking.


I'd love to, but every shop I've talked to doesn't do it. There may be somewhere that does it further away but so far I haven't found a place. I live in a town that's about an hour away from everything, and hardly any shops cater to old cars. The ones that do are all hot rod shops and everything gets converted to disc brakes.

-Kevin

Posted on: 4/23 12:49
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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
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PackardDon
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When I posted a photo of the passenger front brake of my 1954 Patrician. someone was quick to tell me that the primary and secondary springs were reversed and indeed they were put in wrong by the person who worked on them last. They person was myself many decades ago! I had put the driver's side together correctly but not the passenger side.

Posted on: 4/23 13:01
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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
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Tobs
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Regarding the one drum that is a little tight....if you put the drum on, and pump the brakes a few times to expand and contract things and then try to center, how much drag is there? Can you turn that wheel by Hand? It is ok to hear the pads lightly touching the drum when you turn that wheel, but you should not have any significant brake torque from dragging pads. Hope that helps...

Posted on: 4/23 16:14
1953 Clipper Delux Club Sedan, 1969 912, 1990 Miata, 2009 Ford S-Max.
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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
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Ernie Vitucci
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Good afternoon Kevin...You might consider looking up a truck brake shop even if it is a fair trot away...they are more likely going to be able to do the work and be willing to help...Ernie in Arizona

Posted on: 4/23 18:49
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Re: KPack
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kevinpackard
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I called a couple truck shops in town (lots of semi's go through here) and none of them do shoe arcing. Oh well.

With the drums back on the car I can easily see that the driver's rear is warped. See the picture for the difference in gap. It makes it almost impossible to turn the rear axle....it is fine for a bit then grabs hard and makes it tough to spin.

An old car guy I know (has a dozen 20-30's cars....Ford's and Studebakers, plus dozens of early 1900's tractors) thinks we may be able to do some work with the warped drum to get it back to acceptable. He has all the machining tools if needed, but he thinks we might just be able to pound it out. I'm going to pull the drum and try to get with him this week.

In the meantime, 2 replacement wheels showed up from David Moe at Seattle Packards. I got right to work removing all the rust and old paint. Lots of fun. Once I got them cleaned up and down to bare metal, I neutralized any remaining surface rust, then painted the rear face and tire face into gloss black. The outward faces will all get painted the same as the body color. I picked up the paint for that today, as well as paint to redo some of the interior trim.

I should have the wheels painted this week, and tires should hopefully be showing up this week too. Maybe. If Diamondback Tires tells you 2.5-3.5 weeks, just go ahead and add another week or two onto it.

-Kevin

Attach file:



jpg  Driver's rear drum warped.jpg (132.03 KB)
1059_608798fdde5bd.jpg 745X1300 px

jpg  Replacement wheels.jpg (467.15 KB)
1059_608799137cdbc.jpg 1300X975 px

jpg  Rust removal.jpg (212.91 KB)
1059_608799279e2e3.jpg 1300X795 px

jpg  A full set.jpg (179.29 KB)
1059_60879938f0026.jpg 1300X975 px

Posted on: 4/26 23:55
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Re: KPack
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Ozstatman
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Quote:

kevinpackard wrote:....With the drums back on the car I can easily see that the driver's rear is warped. See the picture for the difference in gap. It makes it almost impossible to turn the rear axle....it is fine for a bit then grabs hard and makes it tough to spin.

An old car guy I know.....thinks we may be able to do some work with the warped drum to get it back to acceptable. He has all the machining tools if needed, but he thinks we might just be able to pound it out. I'm going to pull the drum and try to get with him this week...... -Kevin
Kevin, two things.
1) Are you sure the drum is warped? Is it possible the backing plate may be out of alignment instead?
2) I doubt that pounding on a brake drum is a good idea. I think brake drums are cast iron, not steel, so are not malleable. Be careful before you do anything with the drum.

Posted on: 4/27 0:13
Mal
/o[]o\
====

Bowral, Southern Highlands of NSW, Australia
"Out of chaos comes order" - Nietzsche.

1938 Eight Touring Sedan - SOLD

1941 One-Twenty Club Coupe - SOLD

1948 Super Eight Limo, chassis RHD - SOLD

1950 Eight Touring Sedan - SOLD

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Re: KPack
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r1lark
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Quote:

kevinpackard wrote:

With the drums back on the car I can easily see that the driver's rear is warped. See the picture for the difference in gap. It makes it almost impossible to turn the rear axle....it is fine for a bit then grabs hard and makes it tough to spin.

An old car guy I know (has a dozen 20-30's cars....Ford's and Studebakers, plus dozens of early 1900's tractors) thinks we may be able to do some work with the warped drum to get it back to acceptable. He has all the machining tools if needed, but he thinks we might just be able to pound it out. I'm going to pull the drum and try to get with him this week.

-Kevin


Kevin, while I agree that you might as well try to improve the drum (it's no good that warped), I'm not so sure "pounding" on it would be the right path, as Ozstatman mentions. Perhaps a better method to consider would be using a hydraulic press - somewhat "gentler" and easier to control.

Posted on: 4/27 7:27
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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
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Dell
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Kevin; Have you removed the key and filed the edges of the key slot to remove any rough spots and tried the drum on? Some times the key can cause your problem. If the drum was that bad your old shoes would have been destroyed. Also double check the backing plate surface to housing surface. keep up the great work. Dell

Posted on: 4/27 9:15
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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
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kevinpackard
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Quote:
Kevin, two things.
1) Are you sure the drum is warped? Is it possible the backing plate may be out of alignment instead?
2) I doubt that pounding on a brake drum is a good idea. I think brake drums are cast iron, not steel, so are not malleable. Be careful before you do anything with the drum.


I'm almost positive the drum is warped and not the backing plate. I should put a straightedge on the backing plate to make sure. Looking in the drum you can see a wear pattern where the shoes hit only in certain spots. Also, when spinning the rear axle I can see the edge of the drum move in and out.

I believe the business part of the drum is cast iron, but is the part that connects to the hub also? My friend was saying sometimes those parts are steel, which would make it possible to bend it back.

Quote:
Kevin, while I agree that you might as well try to improve the drum (it's no good that warped), I'm not so sure "pounding" on it would be the right path, as Ozstatman mentions. Perhaps a better method to consider would be using a hydraulic press - somewhat "gentler" and easier to control.


I'm not sure what the guy has in mind for trying to repair it. But perhaps "pounding" wasn't quite the right term. Obviously there will be some sort of force to correct it....probably a press. He has all that stuff in his shop. The problem I see here is that according to the Parts List this drum is a ONE year ONE model only drum. I have no idea how similar other years and models are to this.

Quote:
Kevin; Have you removed the key and filed the edges of the key slot to remove any rough spots and tried the drum on? Some times the key can cause your problem. If the drum was that bad your old shoes would have been destroyed. Also double check the backing plate surface to housing surface. keep up the great work. Dell


Are you saying that roughness in the key slot might keep the drum from fully seating, or that it might cock it sideways? And are you saying to smooth the key slot in the axle or in the drum?

The old shoes weren't great....a lot of uneven wear. Very thin in the center and thicker on the ends.

I'm pretty sure the backing plate to housing is good....everything was cleaned to bare metal and reassembled so there shouldn't be anything interfering.

-Kevin

Posted on: 4/27 11:29
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