Packard Forum Index » Post-War (1946-54)

Hi Guys:

Do you guys have any old time Packard tricks for freeing up a sticking exhaust valve? Without removing the head.

I had the head off 2 years ago for the same problem. I cleaned all the valves and guides and found no burnt valves, as I blued all the seats. At that time, I found #8 exhaust to be sticking. Cleaning the guide and valve stem cured the problem for a couple of years. Now it's doing it again.

It's a funny sort of intermittant miss, it comes and goes. It takes a while to smooth out, when it happens. I suppose due to the lifter pumping up when the valve sticks.

I'm puzzled as to why it's always #8 exhaust? I thought #8, being at the end of the block, maybe some crud buildup, in the water jacket. Causing localized overheating back there. But I had the water distribution tube out when I did the valve job. And flushed everything out with a garden hose. I've got a 160 degree themostat in her with no overheating.

I suppose running her more often would be benificial. I only use this car for shows. What else can I do?

Thanks
Warren

Hi Warren, your problem seems a bit unusual to me; with an engine in regular use, when valve sticking does occur, most of the time it's intake valves that are problematic. When you had the valve out the last time, did you perhaps change the guide or valve, or check the stem to guide clearance? It's occasionally necessary to ream guides to get the correct clearance.

The other thing that occurs to me is that you might have a leaking head gasket or crack in the head or valve seat and coolant may be rusting the guide/valve stem. Do you see an unusual amount of water vapor at the tailpipe (or other signs of coolant loss)? (PS - I'd especially suspect this if your 359 still has the original aluminum cylinder head - check for cracks around the spark plug threads).

SPecifically at what point is the valve sticking??? By that i mean does the valve stick open only slightly as in almost closed but ot quite??? Or is it hanging open say 30% or more?????

Have u checked all of the other exhust valves for any stickiness very near the closed position????

Does the problem seem to occur at any specific SUSTAINED speed and higher but then goes away when speed is reduced or increased greatly?????

When u cleaned the valve 2 years ago was there any CONSPICUOUS heavy build up and specifically WHERE on the valve stem was the build up of varnish/carbon???? OR did the build up on the stem appear to be rather negligible???

In some cases valve guides are counter bored maybe 1/8" closest to the head of the valve. I think this was covered a few months ago for Packard. So maybe #8 guide is different from the other 7????

UNrelated to above points i made above:
Not likely but a Faulty lifter maybe????

Edit:

Try using a different oil. If u're using synthetic then use 'regular' engine oil. If using a streight SAE weight oil then try a modern multigrade oil such as 10w-30 or maybe 10w-40 as is used in modern day cars . If u're running a 20w-50 or somethig like that it's just too damned heavy.

I also had a problem with sticky valves. Sticking meaning not moving their full travel. I only found this after removing the head. But the difference with mine was the engine sat to long from the last time it was started. And not only #8 but #1, #2 and #7 also. What I found was some black tar like stuff on the valve stems(Maybe carbon and varnish).

I have heard of people using Marvel Mystery Oil and having good luck with it, just dribble a little down the Carb. with the engine running. So you might want to give it a try. I would have but I already had a tapping noise coming from the valves and I figured it would be better to just redo the top end.

Here's a picture of my #8 valves, noticed the black on the stem. They did pull out by hand but real slow.

Attach file:

---

  (81.58 KB)

Good tips guys, thanks. Owen I think you might have hit on something. You might be right about the intake valve. As it's making a funny wheezing noise when it sticks. And it seems to be affecting #7 & #8 this time. I just assumed it was the exhaust, because that's what stuck the last time.

As to the Aluminum Head; There didn't appear to be any cracks or leakage of coolant. But the spark plug threads are getting real sloppy. I picked up a 327 cast iron head, last year. It might be time to swap them out. On another subject: What have you heard of the Cast Iron heads causing excessive pre-ignition on a 359. If so, what's the remedy?

This car has 77K miles on the odometer. But I think the engine was rebuilt or replaced at some time before I obtained it. As there is no ridge in the cylinders. And minimal play in the valve guides.

Wesley; I had the same black crap on my exhaust valves. When I pulled them 2 years ago, only #8 was stuck. I had to use a wire wheel to get it off. I too heard of Marvel Mystery oil being a wonder drug. Any of you use it?

As to the gas, I read somewhere that our flatheads don't like this 10% ethanol they use now. As a precaution, I'm using a lead substitute. At the end of the season I use Stabil. How would marvel mix with this stuff?

I guess if I'm going to replace the Aluminum head. All this is null and void. As I'll probably do another valve job. I suppose the question here is: How do I keep this from happening again, two years down the road?

Thanks for the help guys
Warren

Marvel oil has been around for a lot of years so it can't be totally worthless & still be available. Whether it would solve anything for your car down the road is a question. You said you didn't drive the car often but one of the supposed benefits was upper cylinder lube and valve stem lube to help prevent rust and sticking in dormant cars.

Had left a post yesterday re the possibility of finding an old period correct automatic dispensing system for the Mystery Oil. Later on decided not to arouse angst & deleted it. Now that someone else has also mentioned mystery oil as a possibility, then it might still be a viable idea. Some of the old original units are shown on this posthttps://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=4884&viewmode=flat&order=ASC&type=&mode=0&start=0 and show up on ebay fairly often.

If you decided to try one, doubt anyone could call it terribly wrong since Packard dealers were known to sell and install them. Might have been a fad of the time as many other things were -- though modern versions were still available as of last year. In any case, if you had an old one it certainly would be a conversation starter if any of the younger people saw one and asked what it was.

Warren asks: What have you heard of the Cast Iron heads causing excessive pre-ignition on a 359. If so, what's the remedy?

I've got some personal experience with this, I went thru it on my 54 Patrician 359 years ago. Yes the 327 head will fit right on, and it will raise the CR significantly, enough that even premium gas + octane booster most probably won't be able to supress the preignition if you retain the factory spark timing. The 359 already had about maximum CR for a flathead, 8.7/1. And it isn't just the CR, it's also the cylinder head temperature. If you retard the spark timing enough to bring the preignition under control, you'll likely be dissatisfied with the performance. Using double head gaskets just plain doesn't work (for long!). Solutions are few, but you might consider reworking the centrifugal advance curve to give less advance at mid-range engine speeds. Again, not an ideal situation and again with trade-off in performance and it's kind of a trial-and-error adjustment; you might want to compare centrifugal advance curves for the 359 vs 327 distributors, or even a 288 - perhaps a simple distributor swap would bring some relief.

Honestly, from my own experience and that with a couple of other head swaps, your best bet if the Al head is in otherwise good condition is to have the bad spark plug threads repaired with a Heli-coil type thread repair and sticking with that head. As I recall, there is a special type of thread repair for these with an upper lip that prevents the Helicoil for accidently working it's way down into the combustion chamber.

Have you cleaned the water distribution tube? Perhaps the back of the engine is getting too hot and causing the valve issue. Just wild speculation on my part.

Was just chatting with a fellow at the swap meet who had been going half crazy with detonation on his 359. Put on a head from a 356 and can now advance his timing to standard and run regular gas besides. He stated no real loss of performance because he used to have to run his timing quite set back and keep his foot out of it anyway. He is quite happy with his car now.

Thanks Ross, I'd completely forgotten about that possibility and that's undoubtedly the best option to replace a 359 head.