Packard Forum Index » Pre-War (1899-1942)

Ken,
First, for including your '41 One-Sixty Super Eight 5 Passenger 4 Door Touring Sedan in the Packard Owner's Registry, appreciated.

Second, I'm sure it would be of interest to many here if you could post "...the original documentation that I used to get the Classic Car Club to alow the 160 model into the club back in 1975. Back then it was 180 only..." It'll be another link in the continuing Packard story as well as the history of our hobby.

Third, good luck in freeing up the engine.

Dave, O_D, see in Ken's Registry entry there are all ALL the numbers you require for your continuing research project.

As requested, I am posting five PDF scans of the letters back and forth asking and receiving entry of the 1941 160 Packard into CCCA. My original mentor introduced me to Packards in 1974 and encouraged me to petition the CCCA on my 160 Packard. He was Alex McInnes an inventor and avid collector. His toy box included a 1936 Mercedes-Benz, 8, 500K, Conv. Cabriolet, a 1932 Packard, 8, 903 Coupe Roadster and a 1937 Packard, 8, 1502 Conv. Victoria, Dietrich, 1957 300SL Mercedes-Benz and other jewels. He worked as an engineer below decks on the HMS Prince of Wales during its pursuit of the Bismark in WWII. He also told me of the PT boats using twin Packard engines for power and an ingenious oil system that allowed them to go thousands of miles without oil change. It used the exhaust heat to "Crack" the old oil and send it fresh back into the engine. He put a modified version of the system into his 1951 torpedo-back Chevy. He liked to show off the oil which was the color of honey. He said the oil had 100K miles on it! Oh well enough reminiscing! here are the downloads. Ken Johnston

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Thanks for reminisce and the documents. I do believe the PT boats used THREE Packard marine engines. And just a comment on the oil longevity interval, some old timers will remember the "Skinner Oil Rectifier" used on much earlier Packard cars to "keep the oil cleaner", perhaps a similar technology.

The respondent from CCCA, Ed Jacod, is a personal friend and I've forwarded his two documents to him as a reminder of his past activity in CCCA, which I don't believe he is active in any longer.

Just a note on this topic.

Initially the CCCA was only going to recognize the premium models - read Custom and Super 8's through 36 and the V-12. However, Kavenagh and Clancy both owned the 320ci models. Clancy also owned a 41 180. Then Turnquist owned a 38 Su8. But in 1952 those were just used cars. However, the broadcloth interior and trim of the Custom 8 180 was a $500 option (which is pretty darn steep). Those power windows notwithstanding.

There were some major classification brawls in the 70's over individual custom cars on junior chassis. As well quite a number of cars were dropped altogether. I guess they thought that letting those cars in would lead to Model A town cars showing up at the CCCA.

It also depended on who was applying. If Nethercutt or Harrah had bothered to apply for a 160 anything you better believe the situation would have been different.

Now some of this may seem contrary to popular myth, but I only found out that Clancy was one of the very earliest members of the CCCA after he died and I never asked him just what was going on in 1952. I have always regretted not asking Charlie about the early days of the CCCA. But the whole time I knew him I had no idea just how important a figure he was. However, he and Kavenagh were both very good friends and supposedly there are personal papers somewhere.

In reference to other responses you've gotten on the value of your 160. Obviously, the car is only worth what someone will pay for it but there are parts on your car alone that are worth at least $2000. Namely the tail light assemblies and the overdrive transmission system. I'd hate to see you part the car out, but don't sell the car cheap assuming that it is not worth much because the engine is stuck. If it's a complete car you'll find someone who's willing to pay you what it's truly worth. Ebay is a good starting point to try to sell the car and usually the first time you advertise it will show you the maximum that someone will pay you. I'd list it with what you consider a reasonable reserve and see where it takes you(I think $5000 is a reasonable reserve). If the car doesn't meet your reserve you can always do a second chance offer if someone got close or list a second time and see what happens. There aren't that many complete 160's around and I'm sure there's a buyer out there for you. I'd be interested in talking you about your car.

Ken,

I'm in your boat. Limited funds, where a gradual restoration is the only alternative, or selling for someone else to complete.
I think Tim's advice is a good way to think about it. $1500 in 1973, how much would you have today earning interest? Use that as your price. At least you could content about selling it.
Also I think you could research '41 160 parts on eBay. Make a list of values. Do you have an adult kid or a friend out of work? Have them part it out , take the pix, and put it on eBay, do the shipping labor, and then split the net proceeds. Lots of people are out of work right now.

But a little work on your part to free the engine would be worth the effort, too.

160 parts are valuable. The engine and tranny parts are valuable. etc

My youngest son is away at school for 2 years and he is storing this 1961 3.8 Jaguar with me. I've started working on it. I haven't started the engine yet. I'm going through the steps now. Not many guys, except real collectors, have 1 each of these.

Good luck on whatever you decide to do. You'll get lots of great, knowledgeable help here.

Joe

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Thanks to henneyowner for your encourgement and price suggestions for ebay. I will probably try something like that. Also many thanks to JoeSnatana for your tips as well. All sound advice and just what I was looking for. JoeSantana, is that a XK150 Jag in the background of your posted pix? I am working on an XK140 right now..Ken

No, it's a 1961 MK2 3.8 Sedan MOD with wire wheels. It's my youngest son's and I just started on it, working toward restarting the engine, using all my Packard knowledge, so as not to do any damage. Us Jagkards are rare, Ken.

I wouldn't try parting it out. The cream will sell fast and then you will be stuck. You might try parting it out as lots, whereby you have to receive enough interest to get to your reserve. But if it's worth $5000 as parts after shipping costs then someone may buy it for that.

Someone we all know bought a whole car for the fender lights and then had a parts car he couldn't sell.

If you want I can run a leed in for you in a well known publication:

"LEED: 1941 Packard 160 sedan. Solid with straight sheet metal. Missing right front parking light lense, and needs new front bumper. Multi-tone paint and interior options. Needs complete restoration. Documented first production 160 accepted by CCCA. $5000 firm."

However, this is contingent on the car being in one piece like the pictures.

And incidentally: 4.13% translates to $7500 which means $2500 shipping.

Hi, I thought I would put in my 2 cents, since I have been collecting Packards since 1968. I wise friend once critizied me for collecting sedans to restore because they cost just as much as convertibles, and convertibles hold their value. He was correct. How does that relate to your car? Just that it will cost much more to restore than it will be worth when finished. This is true even if you are able to do much of the work,unless you disregard the value of your time and labor. Therefore,you may have a great parts car, depending upon the condition of the valuable parts. It is difficult to tell from photos the actual condition of the body parts. Are the rear fenders rusty where they bolt to the body? Is there rust through at the bottom of the front fender wells? The taillights and lenses are valuable, but how pitted is the trim on the housings and are the lenses in good condition, i.e., not chipped or cracked? Unless you are able to sell it to someone in your area, not only is there the cost of transportation for the buyer, but he/she has to take into consideration the time (cost) to dismantle the car. If you don't have the time to take it apart and sell the parts, then put it on eBay with lots of good photos and see what it will bring, using a realistic reserve. If it doens't sell after the first run through, try it a second or third time. You always can lower the reserve. If you are interested in selling parts, you can try that if the car doesn't sell. You may realize more than you would if you sold the car as is.