Packard Forum Index » Modification Discussion

There is one site which gives some info on brake design or requirements and how to pick some components. It is more geared to the hot or street rod crowd but some items apply.http://www.deanoshiro.com/brakes/brakearticle.html#booster

Thank you, HH.

Craig posted:

For myself, I experienced 4 (BTV) failures on 4 different professionally rebuilt units before I gave up and engineered a modern dual master replacement.

Craig, must have been dissapointing and perhaps hair raising experiences, no wonder you gave up. However that does not show in any way that the BTV is a "defective" unit. In the 50's it was orig equpt on Chev, Olds, POntiac, Buick Caddy, Edsel,Merc, Linc, Nash, Hudson and the Mercedes 300SL which was raced at speeds over 150 mph.

Could you share with all of us who the rebuilder(s) were?

An analysis of the reason(s) for failure would be more enlightening, it may (probably) turn out that the workmanship or parts are at fault.

If you still have failed units intact, I will send a call tag for them adn investigate in my shop and report here. I would like to help solve this problem

Fred Kanter
Kanter Auto Products
Boonton NJ

BTV experience discussions similar to the discussions in this forum also appear here (it's a LARGE forum):

http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/218459/

Fred Kanter wrote: Quote:

I purchased my 1955 Patrician in December, 1998. According to sales receipts in the glove box, the brakes has been overhauled by Trowbridge Automotive of Portland, OR in 1993.

In March 1999, I experience BTV failure and had my Pat towed to Mike Miller's Custom Auto Service (Classic Car Restorations) in Las Vegas, NV. To repair the BTV, I separately purchased "1 EA BOK p Brake Overhaul Kit WP.B." for $155 from your company (Kanter Auto Products, invoice K83357). Mike Miller personally repaired the BTV with your kit.

In May 2000, I again experienced BTV failure, but this time almost right in front of Superior Tire, a Goodyear authorized service center. They removed the BTV and sent it to one of their qualified rebuilders as a core. They received a rebuilt unit (not the same as the one that came out, I believe) and installed it.

In summer of 2001 (I can't find the receipt, so I don't know the exact date), again I experienced BTV failure. This time, I was close enough to home to limp my Pat to my garage on the e-brake. I removed the BTV and sent it to White Post Restorations in Virginia. They completely rebuilt that one and sent it back under "full warranty." I reinstalled the BTV myself.

In September 2002, I again experienced BTV failure and fortunately it was close to home and I did not hit anything. This time I completely replaced the unit with a new Master Power Brake dual MC and booster. I was so disgusted with the BTV and its failures that I threw that BTV in the trash. If you have not seen it, here are the web pages describing the MPB conversion:http://www.1956packardpanther.com/Panther/powerbrakes.html

So, to recap: 1st repair done by Trowbridge Automotive, 2nd repair was done with Kanter kit by Mike Miller's Classic Cars, 3rd repair was done by Goodyear Service Center, 4th repair was done by White Post Restorations. There were at least 2 different BTV units involved, maybe 3 depending on whether White Post actually rebuilt my BTV or just exchanged it.

The current MPB dual MC and booster has been flawless for over eight years.

Craig

Thought I would bring this back to the present --- Has anybody actually done the disk brake conversion on a prewar non power assisted brake system. Please no more BTV discussion.

Hi just chiming in ,I have a 52 200 and got the abs power brake disc kit ,
The configuration of the frame members and how the master is placed there's not much room for anything with a under the floorboard booster / dual reservoir set up but that fresh air vent looked like great real estate so I am going wit a nice 9 " booster/dual reservoir set up in the hole ,any one have a sketch of how they reinforced their unit? Or if there's a spot where I could sneak back a new hole for fresh air ,I( love the vent )
This seems like the most practicable move to modern to me and sound fairly fool proof ,any hey be sure to,s I could pass on to the installer would be much appreciated !,, ill

I would say in the years I drove my 56 400
I never had a failure while driving the car.
I already stated that I had the booster rebuilt twice
once professionally an I rebuilt it myself, when I found
that there was a vacuum leak from the booster.
On a side note, about brake failure,
the first car I bought was a 68 cougar 289, auto
front disc. One day driving up Vermont Ave at about
55mph a women drove through her red light right in
front of me, I slammed on the brakes, and nothing
I turned the wheel left as fast as you could imagine
which caused the car to jump the center island. To say
I was pissed, I whipped the car around chased the women
down and drove her off the road, it took me about a mile
to get the car stopped. I went back to her car
grabbed her keys and through them in the field.
I did drive the car home, about 3 miles very slow
in first gear.. Then I checked the MC, no fluid
I checked all the fittings, I checked for signs of leaking
at the wheel cylinders, at the calibers, all along the
brake lines, no signs of a leak, I took the MC
off the booster to see if any fluid was leaking back
into the booster no sign, of a leak.. Then I took
the booster apart and there was the fluid, just a small
pool. Took it up to a rebuild company and they exchanged
it... Never had that problem again.
I don't know what happen to the women, guess I might
have over reacted, but Damn,
I was 17 and I worked for every dollar I paid for that
car.

IMO, disc brakes are not required unless one is going to be driving really fast and aggressively (which I will be doing with my Panther). What is absolutely required is replacing the BTV with a modern dual MC & booster. Having both is a good thing.

Craig

Any more updates on a dual master cylinder install?