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Re: Noisy Lifters
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Home away from home
 
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I've just gone through the "Noisy Lifters" and one of the things I've learned from it is that just because you can see the valves moving up and down - that doesn't mean the valves are closing. I had one that was very hard to spot as it almost completely closed and since it moved back and forth, I passed it by. The only way I know to check this is to remove the head or at least lift it up from the block (keeping it horizontal and NOT balancing on top of the exhaust manifold) and watch to see if they all completely close.
But before doing that, I want to add my voice to the ones calling for a re-torquing of the head. I had driven mine only a little bit due to the run away idle but after it had run the about an hour and a half total, I got out the torque wrench and was completely amazed at how much further the nuts went down. Other changes as a result of the valve work was a livelier engine and almost instantaneous starts even in cold weather. It has changed the car enough that I'm wondering if the head was ever re-torqued after the valve job done when I first got it back in 2010. Good luck. J.
Posted on: 2014/11/12 0:40
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1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan (parts ?) 1951 Patrician Touring Sedan 1955 Patrician Touring Sedan |
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Re: Noisy Lifters
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you will probably need to retorque at least four or five times till the numbers settle down.
Posted on: 2014/11/12 4:05
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Re: Noisy Lifters
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Thank you Tolandis for that information. You can bet that I'll be following your recommendation.
I've been going over some of the Trouble Shooting Sections of the FSM and posts on engine noises here and I can't help wondering if some of the sounds I was hearing before weren't caused by my failure to re-torque those bolts. Plus, I didn't spend a fortune on my Torque Wrench (Harbor Freight) so several re-torques would probably give me a good average of 60-62 foot pounds as per FSM. Thanks again Tolandis for your help.
Posted on: 2014/11/13 18:29
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1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan (parts ?) 1951 Patrician Touring Sedan 1955 Patrician Touring Sedan |
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Re: Noisy Lifters
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Just popping in
 
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Thanks for the detailed info about adjusting and cleaning the lifters. My '51 300 has the 327 engine, makes a clicking sound after it is warmed up thoroughly, and I have been thinking about doing the same thing. Your pointers are much appreciated!
Posted on: 2016/5/6 15:52
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Re: Noisy Lifters
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My '53 Cavalier has a noisy lifter, I think just one, which I'm hoping is going to clear up. The car is new to me and has been in storage for many years, although I don't know how many, maybe as many as 40 years or more.....I'm still trying to track down the history of the car.
After getting the car running again I gave it a fresh oil change using Lucas 10-40 high zinc and Lucas Heavy Duty Oil stabilizer. The fresh oil change seemed to quiet the lifter a bit....Yesterday I added some Marvel Mystery Oil as well and we'll see if that frees things up. Since getting the car running I've put on 60 miles plus a bunch of idling while tuning/checking the engine. I'm thinking that I will pull the covers and see it if I can determine just which cylinder has the sticky lifter (guessing it's 4 or 5) The oil was very clean when I got the car and the new oil is still super clear . So, I don't suspect the lifter problems are due to dirty oil, but rather maybe a build up of varnish. Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated!
Posted on: 2023/4/16 9:57
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Re: Noisy Lifters
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I have had some struggles with noisy lifters, and I haven't quite resolved them, but here is some insight I have learned from the experience of another member of this site:
There is the specified clearance for the lifters, IIRC it is 0.030-0.070, but don't quote me on that. It can be measured with the little gage that may be purchased from Max Merritt or Pacific Northwest Packards, or the lifters from Kanter have instructions on how to disassemble a lifter to turn it into a gage. The poster reported the same issue that I have had, and others do - that the lifters were quiet when cold but one (in his case) lifter was noisy when hot. He replaced the lifter a couple of times to no avail, but finally measured the clearance and found it to be tight, and then after having the stem ground shorter to put it within range, the problem went away. He believes that the lifter needs enough clearance to be able to "pump up", and when the engine gets fully warm is when the clearance gets smallest. My problem, I believe, is that when I measured the clearance for a number of the valves it was on the low end. It may be that, because it is not easy (for me at least) to do this measurement, that it actually was/is below. It is also true that because of valve recession the clearance can get tighter over time, which may be the crux of the issue - since it was on the low end, after running for a few hundred miles it went below the tolerance. So the moral of the story is - it may not be your lifter (though if you take the head off to check, it may make sense to replace the lifter at that time), it may be valve recession has caused the clearance to tighten up. Most machine shops can grind the valve stems, my understanding is that it needs to be done carefully so that the valve stem end is still flat and perpendicular.
Posted on: 2023/4/16 11:37
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Re: Noisy Lifters
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Quote:
Hmmmm, more good thoughts. I hadn't considered the idea that valve recession could be causing my issue. My problem is I know nothing about my car's history. It's been parked for maybe 40 years and for all I know it was parked with this issue. So I've got Marvel in the oil and going to give it some time to see if maybe the bad lifters will clean up and come back to life. If not then I'll look at replacing lifters. I'm not sure how long to wait before determining that I need to replace lifters. And "if" I end up replacing lifters wouldn't it be prudent to replace the entire set while you're at it? If this was my daily driver this would be an annoyance! But, because it's my project car it's kinda fun to first solve the riddle and then to fix the problem.........maybe!
Posted on: 2023/4/17 17:17
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Re: Noisy Lifters
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Putting new lifters on a used cam may not be a good idea. Mixing the positions of used lifters on the cam may not be a good idea. If you continue to have issues, I suggest removing all of them, keeping them in order, and take them apart and clean and inspect them. Do not mix parts from one lifter to another, ever! Hydraulic lifters have a limited range of function, and need to operate within that range, which typically requires an initial adjustment. Factory procedures and specs would need to be followed. The lifter needs to be able to expand when the engine is cold to maintain proper valve clearance, and collapse slightly as the engine warms up to maintain proper valve clearance. A stuck, bottomed, or topped out lifter plunger cannot do this.
I'd want to run the engine several hundred miles at moderate speeds to allow the fresh oil and Marvel oil a chance to clean up the lifters, rings, etc. Any cleaning effect will occur when the engine is warmed up and running. I'd keep the engine speed down, with road speeds in the 45-50 MPH range or less. Longer runs are better than shorter runs. The idea is to get the engine warmed up and running, and the hot oil circulating. Runs lasting an hour or more are best. If you have an oil filter, I'd start with a clean element. Correct any missing or other tune up issues. You want the engine running on all cylinders.
Posted on: 2023/4/18 9:52
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Re: Noisy Lifters
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Quote:
Thanks for the thoughts TxGoat. Fingers crossed that the lifters will clean up and come back to life. That makes good sense to do a couple of longer, "gentle" drives to get the oil warm and flowing to give it a chance to clean things up. I believe the engine is tuned as good as possible, but still has a bit of a miss (most notable when the engine is under load) which is possibly related to the lifters. The other day when I got home after about a 20 minute drive the lifters were all quiet, but then started ticking again after idling for a couple of minutes, so sometimes they are able to pump up, even when warm, but not always. Maybe dirty, maybe worn, time will tell.
Posted on: 2023/4/18 10:22
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