Packard Forum Index » Post-War (1946-54)

There are 3 bolts per hinge. After the early production sag problem they went to a thicker capture plate, I think larger bolts, and may have added a fourth bolt. I would have to look in the parts manual to see how many per hinge.

On thinking about some of the suggested alignment procedures they have done in other places there may also be a small 1/8 roll pin or sheetmetal screw that was installed after the alignment was correct and bolts were tightened.

What I am hoping is loosening the hinge can allow just enough outward motion to get the flange of the door skin past the fender so the door can slide forward a small amount. It doesn't need much before the rotary wheel is clear of the striker. Being careful of the paint is a must though.

David,
Some answers to your questions in the previous post:

The welds suggested for sagging doors apply to convertibles only due to the longer and heavier door.

There are 3 bolts holding each hinge bar to the door. Outward movement will be limited due to the hinge passing through the slot in the front of the door.

There is no access to the captive nut plate by removing the interior trim on the door pillar. The opening in my photo was cut after the pillar was removed in order to gain access to the nut plate.

David; If you hold the lock you bought (hope it is correct) with the wheel down like it is in the door you should see the flat area in the picture in the corner. When that flat tab is pushed down the wheel is free to turn and release the striker. If you can not push it down by hand try and tap it down with a hammer, also have some one put a little pressure on the door to open. If it will not move down and release the wheel I would try to force the door open with people pulling and some big guy on his back kicking a blanket that is on the door to protect it. no way will the hinge idea work and the damage from drilling on B pillar is not worth it. Look at post #4, the yellow arrow is on the flat piece that you push down.

If the hinge idea doesn't work then I think it will be a matter of a cold chisel tearing the lock apart.

By all means push on anything you can see that moves in hope the wheel releases. As I understand the issue I think the part that releases the 3 spring loaded blocking levers which keep the actual wheel from turning may have broken off just like it did with the poster that had the original problem with his lock at the start of this thread. That piece is shown in post 13. If the piece has broken it is part of one of the blocking levers located inside the cover plate over the wheel. The outside lever which the yellow arrow points to pushes on that part which, being part of one blocking lever, also moves the other two levers simultaneously. There is nothing to push outside of the enclosed cover that will release all 3 of the plates holding the wheel at the same time if that is the part that is broken.

BDeB, Dell, & HH56 Thanks for the feedback.

Multiple bolts per hinge leaf make a bit more sense than one.

My question about the striker captive nut plate was to clarify that if plan A (moving the entire door forward) didn't work then defeating the striker screws could be done in two ways; first drilling from the rear door opening (difficult and only if the last resort), or providing an access opening in the 'B' pillar. At least the access panel opening modification would be hidden, but from the factory there is no access opening.

I noted the small strap at the bottom hinge in Howard's photos of the '47 door. Clearly that feature seems to be an assembly aid that has nothing to do with structure or strength of the hinge. Just there to position the door while an upper bolt is started. I guess that assumes the hinges are pre-installed on the body and the doors are brought to the car without hinges. If the '48 detail is about the same . . . an assembly aid only . . . then perhaps that item could be convinced to cooperate and the door can be deflected outward and perhaps forward a bit more.

Dell, thanks for the clarification on the photo. From the evidence ( both the inner and outer handle have lots of lost motion ) we are currently leaning toward the 'pawl' failure that BDed documented in post #13. That is the inner and outer handle input to the master pawl is OK, but the coordination between the master and slave pawls has been defeated by failure of the master pawl. Once (perhaps if) I ever get this mess apart I'll know a lot more.

Right now I'm thinking of collecting repair parts and then taking the passenger's side apart (that door opens just fine) and going to school on what to expect and prepare for when the driver's side is addressed. If I have the current right side lock 'in-hand' I can also match it up to the NOS one I bought on E-bay. I know that one is wrong because it has a 'bent' locking rod, but I don't know if there was any other differences between the models. If all it takes is to swap the rods my plan will be to have a zero time unit on at least one door.

The Ebay unit is NOS and I can read all of the patent numbers. I looked a few up on the web and learned that the Bassick Company of Bridgeport, Connecticut held the patents, and supposedly manufactured the latch. The irony is that I was born and lived in the greater Bridgeport area for 50+ years. Had I known I could have stocked-up on parts.

dp

The NOS lock assembly with the bent locking rod is for a convertible and will not work in a sedan. In addition to the bent locking rod, the part of the mechanism that is contacted by the outside door handle is different due to the thicker door on the convertible.

Sorry I haven't paid much attention to this. When this happened to my 50 about 40 years ago the solution was that my friend stood outside the car and held the door handle to the open position. I got in the car and laid down on the seat. I gave the door a mighty kick at the rear edge with both feet and it came open. You can tape a towel to the door panel to prevent damage.

Failing that, I would drive wedges between the door and pillar just above and below the the latch area. If the door and the pillar each spring, oh, 3/32 the wheel will slide free. Both parts will spring back from such a minor dislocation. It is after all, only sheet metal.

My question will be based on the assumption that the driver's door latch 'master pawl' has failed in a mode similar to that documented by BDeB (crack and ultimate separation of the coordination tab).

If I'm unable to find a driver's door latch would any of the other door latches contain a 'master pawl' that is identical to the one in the driver's door?

I've looked at both of the right hand side (passenger's side) door latches as they protrude from the door. I would say that both right hand side latches rotate in the same direction, and both have the dovetail above the gear, therefore I've assumed the similarity of the pawl is associated with the side of the car LF/LR and RF/RR. This would likely be different if the vehicle has 'suicide' rear doors. The Chrysler latch repair kits on 'Ebay' frequently will equate LF/RR and RF/LR, I believe those applications did have 'suicide' rear doors, until '49.

I would like to purchase a left front door latch complete' ready to go', but if I can't, can I harvest parts from another door's latch? I would like to avoid making a 'master pawl' from scratch.

Dp

PS. At the Saturday night 'car show'/retiree's club meeting another voice has been heard from on how to remove the failed latch. That scheme is to abrasively defeat the heads of both the 'gear' and 'pawl' shafts, remove the cover, and extract the gear until the door is free.

Grinding the plate loose might be possible but the window channel is right in front of and very close to the latch so I wonder if there is enough room for any kind of tool to reach the rivets. Have you determined if the inner door panel can be removed without damage with the door closed. If it can't be removed then about the only viable idea so far would be Ross's wedge suggestion.

I wonder if one or two of those small thin air bags like is used in paintless dent repair could be used in place of the wedges to "spring" the jamb a tiny bit.

Sorry no fun yesterday . . . I spent about 8 hours disconnected from the world (hardwire and wifi) so I might conduct a complete backup of my Windows 10 hard drives, including clean-up and optimization . . . that was just in case another round of the 'ransomware' is on the horizon.

Play time will also be limited today, but later I would like to have a conversation and discussion on the subject of wedges and air bags. That one took me by surprise, so under the assumption that students are expected to do homework I spent some amount of time on the web trying to educate myself on the subject. Still a little fussy on how they might help.

Once I start this project my plan is to document with photos and text. Perhaps it will turnout as a 'what not to do' manual . . . only time will tell.

dp