Happy Easter and welcome to Packard Motor Car Information! If you're new here, please register for a free account.  
Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!
FAQ's
Main Menu
Recent Forum Topics
Who is Online
148 user(s) are online (86 user(s) are browsing Forums)

Members: 2
Guests: 146

Packard Newbie, 64avanti, more...
Helping out...
PackardInfo is a free resource for Packard Owners that is completely supported by user donations. If you can help out, that would be great!

Donate via PayPal
Video Content
Visit PackardInfo.com YouTube Playlist

Donate via PayPal




starter or solenoid problem?
#1
Quite a regular
Quite a regular

flyntgr
See User information
I cranked my '54 Pacific and it ran fine for about 15 miles, until I had to stop and turn off the key. When I started her up again, it sounded like a tin can lid in an electric fan. I tried turning off the key, but it kept clanging even with the key turned off. So, I tried cranking it again and it did crank, but the clanking continued until it gradually stopped. The car kept running, so I dared not turn it off again, as I was on a remote highway location. When I got home-another 10-12 miles-it was running quietly and smoothly. After I turned off the key and let it sit for a few minutes, the dash warning lights came on, but the starter never did kick in again. So, it sounds like maybe the starter needs rebuilding, but I am NO Mechanic. What say you guys? Thanks!

Posted on: 2018/5/5 21:03
 Top  Print 
 


Re: starter or solenoid problem?
#2
Forum Ambassador
Forum Ambassador

HH56
See User information
Which starter and solenoid do you have -- a small solenoid with 3 terminals, small terminal being on the top of the solenoid and large on either side or the large solenoid that has a lever on one end which moves the pinion and all terminals on the other end? Small solenoid is inertial Bendix drive starter, large solenoid is the pinion shift starter. There is a bit more involved with the pinion shift type and if the plunger is sticking and not retracting the pinion that could account for some noise and also no action from the starter if the electrical contact is not being made.

In either case, the start command is at the small terminal so I would get a volt meter and measure that terminal to ground when you turn the ign switch and try to start. If there is no voltage at the terminal (and assuming the Ultramatic safety switch is good) and no action at all at the solenoid there is a probability it is the ign switch. The 54-56 key start type switches are noted for the start contacts flaking out or becoming intermittent -- particularly when used with the the large solenoid. In addition to not making contact intermittently, the contacts inside the switch can also stick and keep the solenoid and starter energized which frequently results in the starter being damaged from overrunning.

If the small terminal has voltage but solenoid has no clicks or movement then solenoid is a likely problem. If the solenoid clicks or moves but motor does not turn then it is a process of elimination to see if voltage is being applied to the motor from the solenoid. If there is voltage at the large terminal out to motor and no action then it is probably the starter but if no voltage comes out of the solenoid then it is the most likely problem.

The large solenoids can usually be rebuilt, the small ones only replaced.

Posted on: 2018/5/5 22:08
Howard
 Top  Print 
 


Re: starter or solenoid problem?
#3
Quite a regular
Quite a regular

flyntgr
See User information
Thank you, Howard. My car has a 3 speed with overdrive, though I don't think the overdrive is working right now. The loud noises stopped and since then, no sound happens when I turn the key on. I will try and test it tomorrow afternoon. I hope I can figure out which it is from what you've have kindly told me. Thanks again, Howard. I'll try to take some pictures of the starter and solenoid, which are conveniently located above the steering gear for easy photographing.

Posted on: 2018/5/5 23:27
 Top  Print 
 


Re: starter or solenoid problem?
#4
Quite a regular
Quite a regular

flyntgr
See User information
I have tried repeatedly to post the picture of my starter and solenoid, without success. Bottom line, though: it is a small solenoid with 3 terminals, the largest of which has current available regardless of whether the key is turned on, in start position, or turned OFF. There is NO current going to the starter terminal at any position of the key. I presume that means the solenoid is bad. It does not have an external lever.
Are these solenoids available through NAPA, Autozone or O'Reilly's? Or do I have to go to Kanter or someone else to find one?
If it is the ignition key switch, where would I find one of those? Thanks for your advice!

Posted on: 2018/5/7 10:06
 Top  Print 
 


Re: starter or solenoid problem?
#5
Forum Ambassador
Forum Ambassador

HH56
See User information
On the photo not posting, it could be the size, title or format. Is it a .jpg image or something else? It needs to be less than 5 megs in size and have no illegal characters in the title name which are the usual issues. One thing that some have run into is posting photos taken with an iPhone or iPad. If you are using one, Apple's new default file format is not compatible so the photo needs to be changed to a jpg or one of the other compatible formats for it to post.

Am assuming you have a starter and solenoid something like this photo. If so, the small terminal on top is the connection from the ign switch. The large terminal on the outside is from the battery and will have voltage all the time. The other large terminal next to the block is the voltage out when the solenoid operates that will go to the motor when the ign key is turned to start position.

The small top terminal is the important one. That should only have voltage when the key is turned to the start position and since you have a standard trans there is no other switch in the circuit to worry about.

If you do not have any voltage on the top terminal at any time look to the ign switch. If you have voltage at the top terminal when key is turned to start but no voltage at the large terminal and copper buss bar next to the block connecting to the motor then look to the solenoid.

Universal 6v starter solenoids are available at Napa and other parts stores but the ign switch will only be available from a Packard person or vendor. Maybe someone on the forum will have one and if not, Kanter, Max, or Joel at Patrician Industries will be the most likely sources. The 54 style ign switch was a one year only because of the mounting. They are in short supply and I expect will not be cheap.

If your starter is not like the photo then will need more info.

Attach file:



jpg  (19.33 KB)
209_5af07391ad46b.jpg 794X566 px

Posted on: 2018/5/7 10:43
Howard
 Top  Print 
 


Re: starter or solenoid problem?
#6
Quite a regular
Quite a regular

flyntgr
See User information
My solenoid must be a generic solenoid, as it looks larger than the one in your picture, though it does have the lever on the rear, with 3 terminals in front. The largest terminal is at 12 o'clock and receives 5 wires leading to it. The 4 o'clock terminal receives one wire, and the 3rd one goes down into the Starter motor. All terminals are on the front of the solenoid-none on top.

The largest terminal with 5 wires going into it is always hot, even with the key off. Neither of the other two terminals are ever hot, even with the key in the start position.

If you could send me an email address as a personal message I believe I can send the picture to you. It is 5,900 mb in color, but is less than 1,000 kb in black and white image. Thank you very much!

Posted on: 2018/5/7 12:19
 Top  Print 
 


Re: starter or solenoid problem?
#7
Forum Ambassador
Forum Ambassador

HH56
See User information
My email address is in the user profile so just click on my user name to bring up the profile. It sounds like the pinion shift starter solenoid which would be correct for a senior 359 engine. The important thing still is to check voltage on the small terminal with the single wire while you or someone else turns the key to the start position. If you have no voltage it is the ign switch which needs checking but if you have voltage then something is amiss with the solenoid and it becomes a more involved troubleshooting to see if it is a mechanical bind issue or electrical in the solenoid.

If you do have voltage does the end with the lever try to do anything or is there any noise coming from the solenoid?

Here is the back of a rebuild kit for a 55-6 solenoid which I believe will be very similar to your description of what you have.

Attach file:



jpg  (71.29 KB)
209_5af0940e7371d.jpg 916X802 px

Posted on: 2018/5/7 13:01
Howard
 Top  Print 
 








Search
Recent Photos
Photo of the Day
Recent Registry
Website Comments or Questions?? Click Here Copyright 2006-2024, PackardInfo.com All Rights Reserved