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Howard
Thanks for this deep analysis of the Ultramatic.In trying to determine the issue ,I am still troubled in understanding a few points.
As the converter reaches higher speed ,the converter clutch engages.AS the car reaches the 20 to 25 ,does the high clutch in the tranny then transfer the tranny into the direct drive as you say and it is now in direct drive IE: it transfers from the high clutches in the tranny to the high gears?
Kevin

If the lever was put in H when you started it has always been in high gear. For all practical purposes the transmission has an input shaft, a clutch pack and an output shaft all locked together in a straight thru piece of steel.

The converter turbines were stationary and splined to the input shaft and as the engine speeded up the fluid pressure on the turbines increased and they started to rotate slowly and the car started moving. Because of the turbines in the converter and the way fluid is directed between them there was a bit of torque multiplication when they started to move. As the car picked up speed the turbines were moving faster and closer to the speed the engine was driving the pump portion so the added torque started to drop off. When the engine speed and car speed reached the point the turbines and pump were rotating at the same speed they could do no more as far as increasing torque. That is when Packard has the direct drive clutch come in which happens at about 20-25mph.

The pump is turned by the engine and the turbines are connected to the high range clutch in the transmission so things are now locked together by the direct drive clutch. By use of the direct drive clutch the engine is directly connected to the high range clutch which is also clamped tight so directly connected to the rear wheels. For all practical purposes the engine is now connected to the rear wheels by a long straight metal shaft.

Henry
so here is what happens
we take off in High,I take the car on the freeway and it gets the high rpm`s and is not able to go past 50 or 60 ,the RPM`s are loud and the car seems to Bog ,when we brought back to the shop we could smell a slight clutch smell.
Theory ,or conspiracy theory.
Could the clutch be bad in the torque converter preventing us to take it to that smooth highway speed ,and the engine runs quiet?

Possibly the converter has a problem other than the direct drive clutch. Even without direct drive the car can go above 50 using converter only. There are some members on the forum with cars where the direct drive is not working well but are still able to drive their cars. It is not the best way to drive since there is excessive heat in the trans being generated but it can be done in situations where that is the option until time or money can be found to rebuild the trans. There are some other things in the converter that can also result in a loss of power and are more serious.

Right now I suspect the high range clutch plates in the transmission are the ones having the problem. If they have burned or plates are worn so thin they cannot maintain a tight solid connection then power and torque needed to the rear wheels for the higher speeds would be unable to be passed thru the clutch assy.

A worn or burned high range clutch in older Ultras is fairly common. Sometimes just old age, high miles and wear alone is the reason but too often the situation is aggravated when the car has been in operation with throttle linkage adjustments out of spec. Throttle pressure in addition to determining when the direct drive clutch comes in has a large part in controlling the amount of fluid pressure going to the high range assy to keep the clutch plates tightly clamped together. If that pressure is low because of a bad adjustment the plates will start to rotate against each other and burning and increased wear is the result.

First thing I would do is go thru and verify the linkage adjustments via the bulletin I posted a link to earlier. If it is the clutch plates possibly they are not totally shot and still have some life left but that is not something I would take a bet on. If the fluid is very dark and stinks to high heaven then the situation has got to the point a rebuild is probably the only option. If the fluid is still fairly clear then a clutch issue may be salvageable but the problem could also be with one of the components in the converter and a rebuild is still the only option.

Is the direct drive clutch located in the Converter?

Yes, direct drive clutch is in the front half of the converter. High range clutch assy is in the trans case.

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Howard
SO,if the torque converter clutch is bad would that cause the high RPM`s at freeway speed ,and the bogging ,just thinking ?
Kevin

Sounds more like the high speed clutch pack inside the transmission case is slipping....

I am having trouble wrapping around the bogging part because what I call bogging might be different than what you are experiencing but I am leaning toward the same conclusion as ptv.

If the direct drive clutch was slipping you would have more engine noise and rpms and what I would classify as bogging would be if you kept pushing the accelerator down and the car did not increase speed and even slowed down. That should not happen with only a slipping direct drive clutch because in spite of the noise of increased rpms and the direct drive clutch slipping, the converter would still be able to move the car and maintain or increase speed. If the reactor inside the converter is slipping or has seized, fluid flow thru the turbines would be affected so power thru the converter could be diminished and slowing down might be a symptom. Since you used the same converter with same symptoms then there could be an issue inside.

I would still check the linkage and DD pressure. You said you put in another trans but you didn't mention throttle linkage and that is so critical and is something that cannot be done by eye alone. Early on Packard made a change in linkage adjustment because high range clutches were being burned due to a throttle pressure issue and issued a bulletin to the field on how to correct the adjustment procedure. That change was a distance of .050 at a point in the linkage. The geometry at both ends needs to be OK and the bent rod between the engine and trans has to have the correct distance between ends. If linkage and throttle pressure is out of whack and doing the same thing to the second trans, then even assuming the second trans is good the same symptom would appear.

Slipping plates in the high range clutch would also be felt as a loss of speed and probably slowing down because stepping on the gas would increase power going to the high range clutch. If the increase in power to the plates reached a breaking point and plates suddenly started rotating against each other all the extra power being delivered to the transmission from the converter would be lost inside the high range clutch and could not get thru to the wheels and the car would slow or never gain speed. There could also be other issues inside the trans that would result in slowing down like maybe a sticking band or maybe a damaged or sticking valve wanting to apply a band or something else getting tight.

Howard
Thanks for hanging in with me.I mean by bogging ,as i floor the car the rpms and engine sound like a lower gear,as if we had a second gear which we dont,when i take my foot off the gas the car slows ,as if its dragging .as well the engine rattles like the timing is off,same sound .It feels like its being held back and there is too much drag for the engine to push the car to the 60 to 90 range.
As I remember these cars could do 90 to 100 with no drag,from my youth anyway.
Kevin