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Re: Packard Auction -Sep 2021
#11
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Tim Cole
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Most of those 25-42 year cars need some work. If it looks bad in pictures then it is really bad.

I agree that 31 convertible sedan is highly questionable. As well, the caption on file for the C5632 photo is:

Packard Co. file photograph of a 1931 Packard nine-tenths left side view, top raised, side mounted spare tire, wire wheels. Inscribed on photo back: "Packard 840, standard eight, eighth series, 8-cylinder, 120-horsepower, 140.5-inch wheelbase, 5-person convertible sedan (body style #1881), body by Dietrich, Inc."

Of course "Standard Eight" is not correct, but that stuff shows up a lot in Packard files. The confusion arises because the files show the same body numbers for the Custom and Standard.

As well, somewhere I recall that if you ordered chassis only it was a 140 inch wheelbase but cataloged as 845 chassis.

So whatever that thing is I have my doubts in the absence of paperwork.

Also the light colored car is a 745. For 1931 Packard reserved the 145 inch wheelbase for the seven passenger closed cars. In 1930 they offered a full line of bodies on the 145 inch wheelbase. The extra five inches were entirely in the hood length.

Posted on: 8/29 6:16
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Re: Packard Auction -Sep 2021
#12
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58L8134
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Hi

Thanks Mal for the museum photos which show the details very well.

Thanks Tim for the specifics and corrections on the period photos plus nuances of Packard model practices.

Kevin: "...they may have borrowed some parts from a factory 833." Kevin, You said the secret woid! With credit to Groucho Marx.

Although the body parts they used were from Dietrich-designed models, the combination here was not from the Dietrich, Inc custom body operation. That rear body section was typical of the Dietrich-designed, Murray-built production series as seen on the '31 833.

Point of this exercise is the auction company list "Coachwork by Dietrich" which it isn't. They would explain that as it was represented as such to them, they simply relay the information. Not outright fraud but a simple 'mistake'.

As we all know, the auction results from the sale of a genuine Dietrich and an 'invention' from period parts is significant. Although our examination here may not prevent the buyer from serious getting burned, if he frequents this site, he has a chance to learn the details.

Steve

Posted on: 8/29 7:28
.....epigram time.....
Proud 1953 Clipper Deluxe owner.
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Re: Packard Auction -Sep 2021
#13
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CartRich
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Here is a picture taken by me on my last visit to the museum in 2010. This is the tag on the Dietrich in question. It is mounted on the driver side in front of the front door. Just a photo for info purposes as Ozstatman took better and more pictures of the car than I did.

If anyone is interested in seeing the other pictures I took that day, this should link you to the album. I am not a great photographer.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/hqkbEv2yrS5GLYFQ8

Attach file:



jpg  body tag.jpg (148.69 KB)
199039_612e27609b5f7.jpg 1278X958 px

Posted on: 8/31 7:58
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Re: Packard Auction -Sep 2021
#14
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Tim Cole
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It's not even in the correct darn place.

Posted on: 8/31 8:01
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Re: Packard Auction -Sep 2021
#15
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Ozstatman
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Quote:
CartRich wrote:....Just a photo for info purposes as Ozstatman took better....pictures of the car than I did.....

I don't think so, just point the camera, press the button and hope.

Posted on: 8/31 8:29
Mal
/o[]o\
====

Bowral, Southern Highlands of NSW, Australia
"Out of chaos comes order" - Nietzsche.

1938 Eight Touring Sedan - SOLD

1941 One-Twenty Club Coupe - SOLD

1948 Super Eight Limo, chassis RHD - SOLD

1950 Eight Touring Sedan - SOLD

What's this?
Put your Packard in the Packard Vehicle Registry!
Here's how!
Any questions - PM or email me at ozstatman@gmail.com
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Re: Packard Auction -Sep 2021
#16
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58L8134
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Not only is the 'Dietrich' custom body tag in the wrong location but running a couple screws through the cloisonne is really a class act.

That body is a mass of telltales, the wide B-pillar is another: not a feature of the Murray convertible sedan body, its too narrow to have been from a phaeton.

I hope this examination keeps a potential buyer making a terribly costly mistake.

Steve

Posted on: 9/1 7:45
.....epigram time.....
Proud 1953 Clipper Deluxe owner.
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Re: Packard Auction -Sep 2021
#17
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Tim Cole
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Nothing about that car is correct.

Posted on: 9/1 8:06
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Re: Packard Auction -Sep 2021
#18
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Highlander160
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After seeing this after the fact I wish I'd have dug in on this conv sedan. Let's talk Dietrich a moment, shall we? As soon as we hear it visions of multi-million dollar customs comes to mind. Sorry, not everything "Dietrich" means millions. A company like any other in their day there was a need for revenue. Their Murray division was building "production" bodies for Packard that were indeed DESIGNED by Dietrich. "What's the 1st tell Jocko?" Many of them had aluminum doors, in fact in my experience all but the cpe roadsters from the start of the 30s (designed by Dietrich but built by Packard) had them, roadster doors were steel. Other than subtle details, if you look close all the Dietrich designs share the same cowl shape and hgt. Conv sedan, victoria, and roadster. The hoods, shells, windshields all interchange, but don't interchange with the sedans, phaetons and others. We can throw in 2/4 coupes in some models but that's mostly 34. I simplify by saying "Short cowl and high cowl" to separate the bodies and hoods. What else? Well every Dietrich body (Murray or custom) got what I call a DIETRICH JOB NUMBER. We have a car with job # 6165. A 33 I know of built a few months later has 6185. A custom may have a number between those 2. Sometimes you'll find the body type number with it. In 1932 (late) Packard began to call out that Dietrich was building these bodies and added a premium to the MSRP and used tags on the body, and all were tagged in 33. I'd have liked to poke at the wood and looked up the job# on this car. Is it a Dietrich? Sure, could very well be. Was it ever the style/model that drove the collector to unlimited avarice and made him "assemble" one? Hardly. The colors alone tell us when it was done, and when you see chrome hood doors and other preiod embelishments the picture becomes clear. I wasn't there when it hammered but at $154K all in with juice it looked like a winner. If you had the car for free you couldn't possibly "get there from here" for twice that. Real? They had a full file on the car to look it all up. I didn't. Now all this knowledge and opinion, coupled with $1.86, will get you a large coffee at Speedway, but then again maybe it helps someone some day too. If I thought I'd get input I'd like to assemble some Dietrich job numbers and start an actuary of sorts. Thanks for reading...

Posted on: 9/10 11:02
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Re: Packard Auction -Sep 2021
#19
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Tim Cole
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If the happy possessor can find a seven passenger body he can return it to its original configuration. I'm sure he was getting the same treatment a customer gets at an art gallery after paying an exhorbidant price for a piece of phony art. Let's look at the most ridiculous part: A supposed Dietrich body with a built by Packard body plate mounted in the wrong location and crooked. That says it all as far as I'm concerned - It's crooked.

Posted on: 9/10 19:01
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Re: Packard Auction -Sep 2021
#20
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Fish'n Jim
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Results are posted. Pretty strong prices.

Posted on: 9/10 19:38
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