Happy Easter and welcome to Packard Motor Car Information! If you're new here, please register for a free account.  
Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!
FAQ's
Main Menu
Recent Forum Topics
Who is Online
151 user(s) are online (94 user(s) are browsing Forums)

Members: 0
Guests: 151

more...
Helping out...
PackardInfo is a free resource for Packard Owners that is completely supported by user donations. If you can help out, that would be great!

Donate via PayPal
Video Content
Visit PackardInfo.com YouTube Playlist

Donate via PayPal



« 1 2 (3) 4 5 6 ... 11 »

Re: Guess it might not be the points.... Suggestions!?
#21
Home away from home
Home away from home

N.C.23rdPackard
See User information
K, so I cleaned with a fine brass brush the coil - and + bases, washers, nuts, all wire ends going to the coil the base, washer, wire end and screw where the wire from the + side of the coil goes to the base of the cap and put dielectric grease on all and re-assembled, and it helped, it is at least trying to fire but sounds behind (retarded) on where it hits. Should I mark where the distributor is now and then advance it some and try it?

Posted on: 2012/8/19 18:48
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Guess it might not be the points.... Suggestions!?
#22
Forum Ambassador
Forum Ambassador

Owen_Dyneto
See User information
I could incorrect but I thought dielectric grease was a non-conductive and thus insulating grease. If so, you sure don't want any on your high tension leads, distributor cap wells, or anywhere else except on battery terminals AFTER they are clean and attached, and a tiny dab on the distributor cam.

Posted on: 2012/8/19 18:58
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Guess it might not be the points.... Suggestions!?
#23
Home away from home
Home away from home

N.C.23rdPackard
See User information
bisbonian
Studly Adventurer

Joined: Nov 2007
Location: Bisbee, AZ & Banamichi, Sonora
Oddometer: 758
Take this as you will, no relation to me.

As written by Wayne Orwig, MGNOC Georgia State Rep.

Using Dielectric Grease on connectors.

A lot of people use dielectric grease on connectors. Some people mistakenly believe that dieletric grease is a conductor. In fact, it is just the opposite; it is an insulator. Dielectric grease is typically made of silicone grease.

As an insulator, dielectric grease is good for use on spark plug boots. This was one of the original applications on vehicles when the high-energy ignition systems came out. It can help insulate the connector and, in particular on a motorcycle where it can get wet, it waterproofs the spark plug boot. And, because it is silicone, it is fairly stable at high temperatures and won't affect the rubber and plastics.

So why would you put an insulator on a connector? The idea is that you use a thin layer. When you push the connector together the grease is pushed out of the way enough to get a connection and the surrounding grease then keeps out water and oxygen. The connector will be protected from the environment and less likely to corrode. Plus, the silicone is safe for the plastics and PVC insulation.

That sounds good, so far; so why not smear it on everything? Well there are a number of good reasons.

First, silicone grease outgases constantly. If the silicone gas gets near a connector or a contact, such as a relay, and there is a spark, the spark at the contact can create silicon dioxide. Some people even suggest that the silicone gas from dielectric grease can travel many feet through the unsulation on a wire and damage a contact on the other end. Omron states that even their sealed switches can be damaged by nearby silicone grease outgassing. Reference the following links for more info:

http://www.omron.com/ecb/products/pdf/en-d2vw.pdf

http://machinedesign.com/article/lubricating-electrical-switches-1025

Second, it is an insulator. It can prevent contacts from touching. If you do use it, use a very thin layer.

Third, if you have a corroded connection, silicone grease will not help. In fact, it may make it worse. It can never improve anything. Dielectric grease will never make a poor connection better.

Fourth, it attracts dust and dirt and it hardens over time. This means that if you smear a lot of silicone grease on connectors you may see nearby relays, switches, or points fail later on. Since silicone grease does nothing at all to improve the connection and, in fact, may insulate the contacts in the connector increasing the resistance the connector may still fail.

So what do you do? Look for a contact enhancer/lube. While most contact cleaners are simple solvents that just wash the connector off there are contact enhancers that deoxidize the contact surface and actually work to lower the contact resistance (make a better connection). Most contact enhancers leave a lubricant behind that protects the metal and continue to deoxidize the metal and improve the connection. They can work to lower the resistance and make a better contact as time goes by. The best you can hope for from dielectric grease is that it seals it enough to not get worse. I have used Caig Deoxit on my bikes for a few years now. I first found out about this on my job when I had to correct an issue in a connector system that could not tolerate even 5 thousandths of an ohm of resistance drift. We had a connector in the field that had been improperly plated and was starting to drift, mostly in warm humid areas like Florida. Our testing showed that the Caig Deoxit could be a good long-term fix. We ended up using the Deoxit to stabilize the bad units until we could get corrected wiring harnesses built with the correct connectors. We also put a layer of Deoxit on the new parts to protect and keep them clean over their lifetime. This solved the drift issue that we had.
I still use a small amount of silicone grease on my spark plug caps. It helps to waterproof them and makes it easier to pull the cap off, but I use it in very small amounts and never near a relay or switch.




Well, when your right, your right,....I never knew that....S.O.A.B!! Well, looks like I am off to clean and RE-wire brush all of my connectors, at least I didn't put any under the cap. So while I am out there should I mark and then advance the distributor just a touch and then try it? I have SO MUCH stuff that I want to service on here but I have to have it starting reliably first so that if I service something and THEN it doesn't start I know for sure what is causing it. Thanks! Steve

Posted on: 2012/8/19 19:54
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Guess it might not be the points.... Suggestions!?
#24
Home away from home
Home away from home

N.C.23rdPackard
See User information
I know one thing, if this car is not running by next weekend I will be selling it. I park GM's in my driveway and they run PERFECT! I won't have any rag a$$ non runners!

Posted on: 2012/8/20 0:20
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Guess it might not be the points.... Suggestions!?
#25
Home away from home
Home away from home

N.C.23rdPackard
See User information
Well I rolled it back, moved my truck over there for a 12V boost and while it did turn over a little faster and with more vigor, it still did the same thing: Backfired thru the carb twice, started a few times, ran poorly, and died right away. The problem is that on the car the starter comes UNDER the gas pedal so to start it you turn the key on and floor it. Sure there is a push button next to the key that has been added at some point, but the one under the pedal works too! So the only time it starts is if I floor it but when I let off enough to not be grinding the starter on a running (semi running) engine it dies. So only wants to run (barely) at WOT and backfires thru the carb, what should I check next?

Posted on: 2012/8/20 1:29
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Guess it might not be the points.... Suggestions!?
#26
Home away from home
Home away from home

BlackBeerd
See User information
Do a static timing of the ignition. Take the distributor cap off and bring the #1 cyclinder to 6 degrees before TDC on the compression stroke. The rotor should be pointed to where the #1 wire is on the cap. Now, with the ignition switch turned off, put a continuity meter/light/beeper across the points. Turn the distributor so the points are just at the break point. Tighten down the bolts.

If your points are set right, the plug wires are not mixed up, timing is close, you get a nice blue spark if a plug is out and you turn it over and the plugs are in good condition, it's not the ignition system.

Posted on: 2012/8/20 5:45
1954 Clipper Super Touring Sedan -5462
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Guess it might not be the points.... Suggestions!?
#27
Home away from home
Home away from home

BlackBeerd
See User information
One more thing. While you have the distributor cap off, turn the engine over one way by hand until the rotor turns. Put a mark on the balancer/crank pulley and then turn it the other way.

How far does the engine turn before the rotor starts turning again?

Posted on: 2012/8/20 5:51
1954 Clipper Super Touring Sedan -5462
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Guess it might not be the points.... Suggestions!?
#28
Home away from home
Home away from home

Ross
See User information
If the timing was OK when it last ran, it is still OK. If you want to advance it a hair, you can loosen the hold-down bolt and turn the dist a couple of degrees clockwise.

Backfiring through the carb only happens if the timing is WAY off, or when the fuel mixture is too lean.

A lot of these cars have been heavily diddled with by the unknowing in the past leaving all kinds of non-standard conditions. I assure you Grandpa hopped in that thing and drove it to work every day. Mine sit for weeks at a time and I usually don't even look under the hood before I turn the key and drive them out of the garage. Yours can be that way too.

As far as that backfiring through the carb goes, when you push it all the way to the floor, it opens the choke back up as a remedy if the car were to be flooded. Lets just skip that whole deal since you are working under the hood by yourself. You can operate the starter by touching a little wire from the pos battery post to the little terminal on the top of the starter.

Make sure your choke has snapped shut on the carb, and maybe give it a little drink. Turn on the key, hold the throttle about half open with your hand and then use your jumper to operate the starter.

Right now there are way to many variables in play. This thing is really not any more complicated than 2 old Ford tractors engines set in a row.

Posted on: 2012/8/20 6:43
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Guess it might not be the points.... Suggestions!?
#29
Forum Ambassador
Forum Ambassador

BH
See User information
Steve -

You may have a situation that seems like one big problem, but there are actually several underlying issues. You have to keep working to eliminate each possible culprit - one at a time.

WRT backfiring, please do verify the timing of the distributor to the engine, which can be done without engine running - as described above. Then, make sure that the #1 plug wire is, now, at the correct position on the cap; of course, if you got the firing order right, the rest of the plug wires should follow naturally. If everything else was OK, that would be enough to keep an engine running at idle, without backfiring or stalling.

WRT weak spark, one thing I haven't heard you report on is the condition of the condenser (capacitor). The voltage needed to make a spark is created, when the points open, by the collapse of a magnetic field that had built-up in the coil when the points wee closed (and all happens very quickly). However, the condition of condenser, which serves as a buffer to prevent premature failure of the points, may have some effect on spark. Have you inspected the lead coming out of the condenser to make sure the insulation is intact? Have you tested the capacitor to see that it is not leaking, electrically? This test can be done with a VOM or DVM.

Also, have you inspected the condition of the breaker ground lead - that is, the primary wire from the coil to the distributor? That lead connects to a post/terminal on the distributor that passes through the housing, but must be insulated from the housing. Be sure to inspect the condition of that bushing/insulator, as well.

Then, it's possible that the starting system is adding to your woes.

The carburetor starter switch first appeared on the new Clipper, which was a mid-year entry to the 19th Series (1941) line-up; proper operation, along with a few precautions, was described in Service Letter Vol. 15, No. 11 (June 1, 1941). That system was subsequently adopted across all models of the 20th Series (1942) and used up through the 26th Series (1953). Yet, troubleshooting must have been a bit difficult for even dealership technicians to follow, as checks and adjustments of the carburetor switch were covered in SL Vol. 17, No. 1 (January 1, 1943).

Except for a change to this system for 1942 that was later rescinded, the factory set-up works as intended - provided every link in that chain is in good working order. Seems to me that the biggest problem has been band-aid solutions that were applied in the years since the factory-trained dealer network evaporated - rather than getting to the root of the problem and fixing it correctly. Adding a dashboard switch is not uncommom.

Gotta wonder, then, if that dash switch was added because of a malfunctioning carb switch, which depends on vacuum to operate properly, but the vacuum problem has only gotten worse since.

Posted on: 2012/8/20 9:40
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Guess it might not be the points.... Suggestions!?
#30
Home away from home
Home away from home

BlackBeerd
See User information
The reason I asked him to check the backlash, is I think the timing chain is shot. Which might be why the car was parked in the first place.

Posted on: 2012/8/20 10:10
1954 Clipper Super Touring Sedan -5462
 Top  Print 
 




« 1 2 (3) 4 5 6 ... 11 »




Search
Recent Photos
Photo of the Day
Recent Registry
Website Comments or Questions?? Click Here Copyright 2006-2024, PackardInfo.com All Rights Reserved