Packard Forum Index » Post-War (1946-54)

Looking at the 22nd series Custom Victoria Convertible information I see that the engine size is shown as 327 and 150 b.h.p., should this be 356 and 160 b.h.p.? I thought all the Customs had the 356 engine and the Supers had the 327. Also, did only the Customs have the 127 wheelbase and the other models were on the 122 chassis? I should know these facts but after looking at the model info for these cars have become confused. Here is a summary of my confusion.

Customs - 356 & 127

Supers - 327 & 122

Eights and DeLuxe Eights - 288 & 122

Does the same hold true for the 23rd series?

Often mistaken but never confused. Thanks

(o{}o)

Went to Neal's book on the 1948-50 Packards and generally verified the above.

Customs - 356 & 127

Super & Super Deluxe 8s - 327 & 120

8s & Deluxe 8s - 288 & 120

Now, I have another question: Were the Customs only considered as "Seniors" or did this category also include the Supers and Super Deluxe 8s? Only the Customs were built on the 127" WB chassis (except for Limos and LWB Sedans) and had the 356 engine. More specifically, were the Super Convertibles considered to be "Senior" cars even though they were built on the shorter chassis and had the smaller motor? Thanks.

JW, the prevalent view is that only the Custom 8s (356-engined models) are considered seniors.

What confuses the picture in the 23rd series is the introduction of the Super Deluxe, sharing the egg-crate grille and wheelbase with the Custom 8 but with the 327 engine. Cloisonne hubcap emblems aside (which are easily substituted), externally it's hard to tell a 23rd Series Custom from a Super DeLuxe but one different feature that easy to spot is the trunk lid trim; on the Super DeLuxe only goes partway down each side whereas on the Custom is goes all the way round the lid. Custom 8s were a hard sell in the 23rd series and I guess the intro of the Super DeLuxe offered almost the same external appearance (with a lesser level of interior appointments) at a lower price than the Custom, but it did really killed off the higher end Custom which in the view of many was the last Packard of exceptional quality with the best of everything Packard knew how to do. The 51 Patrician in comparison didn't even come and it really wasn't until 1953/54 that the Patrician regained much of what was lost starting in 1951.

O_D,

Thanks for your clarifying comments. The difference between the 21st series Supers and Customs and the 22nd Supers and Customs is the 21st series cars both had the 356 engine and long wheelbase, and both considered to be a "Senior". The 22nd and 23rd series model differentiations are not as clear. If Packard could not make a clear distinction between various models, what chance did the customer and public have? Senior and Junior categories got better starting with the 24th series.

All said, the Model Info for the 22nd Custom Eight Victoria Convertible Coupe needs to be corrected.

(o{}o)

JW -

I didn't compose the pages for those Series (only the 55th-56th and, later, the 57th-58th), but since I've been editing errors in other years/series/models as they have turned up, I went ahead and made the correction that you requested for the 22nd Series Custom Vic (chassis 2233) for both 1948 and 1949.

I don't have much time for online/hobby pursuits, right now, but since I was already in there, I started auditing the wheelbase, displacement, and HP for all 22nd Series models.

As part of that work, I also changed the HP listed for the 327 motor in 22nd Series models (chassis 2202-22-32) from 150 to 145. SC Vol. 21, No. 19 shows 145HP for 22nd Series and SC Vol. 23, No. 5 shows 150HP for 23rd. While SC Vol. 22, No. 1 provides a correction for engine torque in 22nd Super Eights, there's no mention of any error in the corresponding HP.

Brian, thanks for your attention to this correction. I feel it is important to have the most accurate information available to those who visit the site. Golly, I have made some data/information mistakes which have been quickly discovered and corrected. I am aware how easy it is to make an incorrect entry. I hope those who do this for the site do not take my discovery as a criticism. I have learned from this discovery, and hope it will help others to understand the seemingly simple, but more complex information of our Packards.

(o{}o)

JW -

I agree that our Model Info data needs to be as accurate as possible. There are too many other sites and publications that have been too fast-n-loose with their info. In fact, I've found quite a few discrepancies among/between third-party sources - even from some highly regarded authors.

Meanwhile, no one should take your analysis and findings as anything but constructive criticism.

It's a shame that more people with the time and resources won't "Adopt-a-Series" (and stick with it). This one feature was a monumental undertaking, and links to much of the archival material were only added, as an afterthought, in a second wave. Though intended to be a starting point for newcomers, it also serves as a ready reference for the rest of us. While the bulk of construction has been completed, you can see that there's always room for improvement - except, perhaps, for 55th-56th-57th-58th Series (LOL).

On the other hand, you know the old saw about too many cooks.