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Packard & Hudson proximity
#1
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Mahoning63
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Stumbled across this description of one of Hudson's plants.

http://www.detroit1701.org/Hudson%20Motor%20Car.html

From the bird's eye view of today find it fascinating that JJN spent much time, effort and money chasing both a non-Packard badged medium-priced car and a "depression proof" small/entry car, both of which he could practically smell being manufactured 2 miles away.

Posted on: 2013/2/11 8:51
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Re: Packard & Hudson proximity
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Joel Ray
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I drove by that plant many times when Cadillac was using it and later on also. Never knew the Hudson connection. I remember driving down Conner many times and seeing the Hudson buildings. Wow, where has the time gone.

Posted on: 2013/2/11 9:49
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Re: Packard & Hudson proximity
#3
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Tim Wile
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Ah, but the grand scheme to create a fourth large car-maker in the early 1950s was for Nash and Hudson to merge, forming American Motors, and Studebaker and Packard to merge, forming Studebaker-Packard. The two merged entitles, AMC & S-P, were then to merge with each other and form a fourth large car company, turning the big 3 into the big 4. The second-stage merger between AMC & S-P never occurred because the head of AMC was replaced by George Romney and Romney & Nance didn't play well in the sandbox together and neither wanted to play second fiddle to the other.

One has to wonder, however, if Packard had merged with Hudson rather than Studebaker, if it would have lasted into the 1980s as AMC did, or even beyond. History, unfortunately, never reveals its alternatives.

Posted on: 2013/2/11 9:52
PA Patrician (Tim Wile)

[size=x-small][color=000099][font=Georgia][url=http://packardinfo.c
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Re: Packard & Hudson proximity
#4
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HH56
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IIRC, some of the articles have mentioned that Nash really wanted Studebaker for AMC instead of Hudson and an overture was made to that end. Friction between Nash and Studebaker personalities prevented that approach and became one of the reason the mergers and acquisitions were set up the way they were. Hudson wasn't Mason's first choice but was on the ropes & didn't have many options so could be picked up for a song. It became the first "marriage" more out of opportunity than real desire.

It would be interesting if somewhere somehow real incontrovertible facts came to light. The 4 way scenario has been mentioned many times but I believe there are also interviews with Romney where he said the whole idea was a lot of BS. Since relatively little appears to be on paper, without a time machine to go back and listen in on conversations the grand merger will probably always be a maybe or what if.

Posted on: 2013/2/11 10:46
Howard
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Re: Packard & Hudson proximity
#5
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Allen Kahl
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Romney took over because George Mason(J.Nance's very good friend) died. Of course Romney senior and Nance are no longer available to ask but I wonder if Romney junior could shed any light on the subject. If you search the forum here, there are a number of threads that cover this subject in great detail. All with varying opinions from bad build quality, loss of guvmnt money due to Eisenhower's predisposition to GM, Romney/Nance conflicts, loss of the merger, Packard's incompetent lawyers, to all of the above. There really is no concensus of opinion on any one or more of these.

ALK

Posted on: 2013/2/11 10:52
Al

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Re: Packard & Hudson proximity
#6
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Mr.Pushbutton
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Both Marvin King and Packards1 had occasion to be at gatherings with George Romney, and asked him about the failure to join S-P into AMC, If I am recalling correctly his answer was something like "It didn't make sense to me", prehaps Packards1 can verify that, he was there.
I knew "the other son", he was my former employer's council, he really did not know much about the auto biz part of his father's life from our discussions.

They all missed the the big dance in the 1920s, that was the time to get hitched up. Every US company that survived was paired up by then, except AMC, and they were an anomoly, in SO many ways. Had Chrysler not bought them (just to get Jeep)in '87 I doubt they would have survived into today
It was all about amortizing costs, especially in body shell/platform.

Posted on: 2013/2/11 11:12
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Re: Packard & Hudson proximity
#7
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Mahoning63
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Google map shows:

Detroit to South Bend: 220 mi
Detroit to Kenosha: 347 mi

Looking strictly at the physical logistics, sure would have been easier to merge with Hudson. Have to wonder what would have happened had Barit nailed the Jet, besting Rambler and Studebaker with sales taking off immediately. Gotta believe Nance would have had an "ah ha" moment.

Posted on: 2013/2/11 13:51
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Re: Packard & Hudson proximity
#8
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Craig the Clipper Man
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By the early to mid 1950s, Studebaker was drowning in debt, but somehow managed to hide that fact from Nance and Packard attorneys and bookkeepers at the time of Packard's acquisition of Studebaker in 1954. That purchase was tantamount to tying a large anchor to your foot and going for a swim half way out in Lake Erie. Along with crappy advertising campaigns, dealer misgivings, and the general feeling that Packard was inevitably doomed, I don't believe that even acquisition by GM or Ford could have helped.

I also don't believe a partnership between Packard and Hudson would have worked out much better, though the two lines do seem a lot more compatible. Hudson, like Studebaker, was floundering and even its merger with Nash did not prevent it from expiring in 1957. (Even though Packard lasted one more year, it was, after all, a Studebaker by that time.)

I have always liked and admired Hudson cars. They were well built, high-quality, stylish vehicles. I remember when I was living in Northern California I found a 1955 Hudson Hornet Hollywood coupe with a factory continental kit, V-8, Kelvinator Weather-eye air conditioner. It was in OK shape, but would have required a lot of restoration. I have always regretted not buying that car.

Posted on: 2013/2/11 15:03
You can make a lot of really neat things from the parts left over after you rebuild your engine ...
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Re: Packard & Hudson proximity
#9
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Mahoning63
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Can see a scenario where new Packard and Hudson large cars hit the streets in '55 with best-ofs from both companies. Hudson's step-down unibody, Packard's V8s, Twin-Ultra and Torsion. Short hoods/decklid for Hudson, long for Packard. 320 V8 for Hudson, 352 for Packard. EGB would close, Hudson would do bodies and final until a new factory could be built in Utica. Stamping in newly bought (or leased) Conner Ave plant. Borrow a page from Rolls and don't restyle every two years, instead go for more timeless that last 5-6 years.

The Jet, imho, never had a chance even in Frank Spring's lowered, "styled" guise. The wheelbase was too short. What absolutely had a chance in 1956 was 2+2 GT Jet that looked like the Italia but without its wide hips and odd brake vents, maybe with hidden headlights. Perhaps Packard could have tooled a new OHV inline Six that rolled down same line as V8s.

Always liked Hudson as Packard's dance pardner.

Posted on: 2013/2/11 16:49
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Re: Packard & Hudson proximity
#10
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Tim Cole
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The plan was to merge Nash/Hudson and S/P together, but N/H quit the deal. I don't think the result would have been very healthy either. As to why Nance would merge with Studebaker in the first place is not much of a mystery. I have 20 years in the corporate world and can assure you that if you aren't pissing away billions on bad deals and bad mouthing the help then you aren't going anywhere. Anybody with a half a brain could see that Studebaker was in trouble. But heck I said that about GM back in the 80's and was told that maybe one day I would realize that I wasn't as smart as I thought I was. Well, at least I never bought GM stock when Wall Street rigged the price at $100 per share.

In all fairness to the merger plan, Ford almost went under after the war so Studebaker may have seemed wonderful compared to the madness at Ford. That notwithstanding, a good accountant should have been able to figure out Studebaker by virtue of the checking account. I know only all too well that opposing bad deals once underway only leads to personal calamity and I guarantee that people at Packard knew what was happening but didn't say anything out of fear.

Posted on: 2013/2/11 17:07
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