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(1) 2 3 »

Firing order and cylinder layout
#1
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away

Andrew Armitage
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OK, I screwed up. In the process of tuning my car up (1954 288 cid L-8) (new distributor cap / rotor / condensor / points) and now it won't start. I replaced the distributor cap and I thought I was pretty careful about switching the wires over but I goofed as now when the starter is turning over the engine, I have no hint of ignition.

The firing order is 1-6-2-5-8-3-7-4 correct?

I can't find how the cylinders are numbered... 1 through 8, front of the car rearward?

If I at least know which cylinder is #1, I can stumble my way through getting the plug wires in the right order to the right cylinders.

Error #2 on my part is that when I pulled the distributor out to change the ignition parts, I didn't mark / take notice of which way the rotor was pointing. In my '41 Cadillac and '40 Buick, it can only go back one way (where it's split on the end and fits into the oil pump, each side is a different length), on this engine, it can go two ways as you probably know. I noticed after I had spun it and then looked to see the ends are the same length on both sides!

So I need help as to which cylinder is #1 and where approximately should the rotor be pointed when it's at TDC?

Thanks fellas.

Posted on: 2013/2/21 22:27
Andrew Armitage
Plainfield, IL
'47 Packard Custom Super Clipper Eight Limousine
'41 Cadillac Sixty-Seven Series
'40 Buick Limited
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Re: Firing order and cylinder layout
#2
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HH56
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1 is in the front. Dist turns CCW. Here is the general layout Packard suggests.

Attach file:



jpg  (34.53 KB)
209_5126e68f80186.jpg 726X444 px

Posted on: 2013/2/21 22:31
Howard
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Re: Firing order and cylinder layout
#3
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Owen_Dyneto
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Right - the distributor can go in in either of 2 positions, 180 degrees apart. And it's not a good assumption that the oil pump has been installed exactly as it was at the factory so the picture in the wiring diagram of where #1 plug wire is can be unreliable. The standard method (other than trial and error) is to remove the #1 spark plug, turn the engine slowly (best by hand) in it's proper rotational direction until you feel compression coming from the #1 cylinder and then stop the rotation at the timing mark. Then whereever the rotor is will be #1 plug and just put the rest in order, following the direction of rotation.

Posted on: 2013/2/21 23:34
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Re: Firing order and cylinder layout
#4
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Andrew Armitage
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Thank you gentlemen. I thought it best to stop and ask before I confuse the situation even more!

I've learned the hard way about the possibility of the distributor being off from how it should be set.

So #1 cylinder TDC by the thumb feel and verify by timing marks, check rotor and make note where rotor is pointing and that is now #1 on the distributor cap. Then the plug wires go in firing order CCW.

I'll give it a shot tomorrow and report back.

Posted on: 2013/2/22 1:48
Andrew Armitage
Plainfield, IL
'47 Packard Custom Super Clipper Eight Limousine
'41 Cadillac Sixty-Seven Series
'40 Buick Limited
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Re: Firing order and cylinder layout
#5
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BigKev
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With the #1 cylinder at TDC, the rotor should be pointing at about the 7-8 o'clock postion on the Distro when looking at it over the driverside fender. If it is pointing at the 2-3 o'clock postion, then you have it 180 degrees askew.

Posted on: 2013/2/22 14:13
-BigKev


1954 Packard Clipper Deluxe Touring Sedan -> Registry | Project Blog

1937 Packard 115-C Convertible Coupe -> Registry | Project Blog
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Re: Firing order and cylinder layout
#6
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Owen_Dyneto
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Kev, that's only true if the oil pump, which has a multi-toothed gear, is in it's original engagement position as the car left the factory, or if removed, was replaced in the original position. If the oil pump has ever been removed, it's anyone's guess how it was re-engaged and thus what the two rotor positions might be (other than 180 deg. opposed). It's always best to go back to basics.

Posted on: 2013/2/22 14:30
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Re: Firing order and cylinder layout
#7
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JWL
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I believe there is a procedure for "timing" the oil pump. Never performed this job, but recall reading something about this in the past.

(o{}o)

Posted on: 2013/2/22 14:55
We move toward
And make happen
What occupies our mind... (W. Scherer)
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Re: Firing order and cylinder layout
#8
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Owen_Dyneto
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The wires can be worked around the cap to work properly with the distributor in any position. But if you're really intent on having the wire position exactly as they were from the factory, remove the distributor, put the rotor where you want it and take note of the orientation of distributor drive shaft slot. Then remove the oil pump and back the gear off a tooth or two at a time and reinstall until you get the alignment you need. You can see the oil pump drive end by looking down the distributor mounting hole with a bright light. But frankly most mechanics don't bother, they just walk the wires around the cap to correspond with whatever position the oil pump drive key happens to be at.

Posted on: 2013/2/22 18:23
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Re: Firing order and cylinder layout
#9
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Andrew Armitage
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I turned the engine by hand and felt the compression on the #1 cylinder. I looked down at the timing marks to ensure it was at TDC and I see the TDC / degree markings on the vibration damper but I don't see the pointer on the block. (I'm standing / leaning / climbing over the driver's side fender looking down between the generator and the fan pulleys.) Is it possible that it was removed? Or is the pointer just a scribe mark on the engine block that might be obscured? The engine compartment is pretty clean so I know it's not buried under grease.

I have the #1 piston near TDC and I checked the rotor, it is pointing at approx the 7 o'clock position. I installed the spark plug wires CCW in the firing order.

I checked the points and gapped them at .016 (Delco distributor set up) and attempted to start the engine but again, no ignition.

I pulled the plugs and see that they are wet with gas and slightly carbon fouled (which is why I was tuning up the electrical system in the first place). I might have flooded the engine before while trying to start it. I pulled them all out, cleaned them off and left them out to dry off. I'm going to go try this again.

Looks like I need to spend some more time checking what I did.

Apparently I've learned just enough to get myself into trouble.

Posted on: 2013/2/22 19:42
Andrew Armitage
Plainfield, IL
'47 Packard Custom Super Clipper Eight Limousine
'41 Cadillac Sixty-Seven Series
'40 Buick Limited
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Re: Firing order and cylinder layout
#10
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HH56
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Since you were inside the distributor and now have no ignition, if you have the type distributor with the short cloth covered flexible wire between the points/condenser inside connection and the outside terminal, make sure a chunk of the old insulation on that flex wire didn't decide to fall off and let the wire short. Has happened more than once when the wire was disturbed. If you don't have that type distributor then would still check for a shorted set of points or condenser.

Posted on: 2013/2/22 21:06
Howard
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