Packard Forum Index » Post-War (1946-54)

23 SERIES 288 ENGINE
The car starts fine cold or on restart after it has been running. BUT
if it is hot outside and I try to restart after sitting about 15 minutes, the starting system goes dead, no cranking, no clicking. The gauges react with the switch and the interior lights are working.
It will then take off after several tries. (it has not failed to restart at this point, but I am getting a little scared of its reliability)

When it does this, the engine compartment seems hot when I raise the hood, like the engine is getting hotter after it has sat without the motor on. I just had the radiator re cord and installed a new 160 degree thermostat.

The starter solenoid was replaced last Fall and the voltage regulator appears to be new.

ANY IDEAS on what to check?

It could be so many things, but first of all, the comment about the engine seeming hotter after you shut it off. Of course it is, that's normal. The engine mass is a huge heat sink and once you turn off the system it uses to disperse the heat, it accumulates and the temperature in the block goes up for a while. Should be no concern.

The fact that it finally does crank over suggests the battery is OK and the charging system working normally but these are always worth a second look. A poor electrical connection could easily be the problem; have you removed the battery terminals and cleaned the battery posts and cable ends? Are the cables correct for 6 volt ("0" gauge at the least? How about the ground strap connection to the engine block (it's in an often dirty, oily place and could have not been tightened if the generator was recently removed)? The starter motor armature could have a bad segment, but I think you'd notice that all the time.

My leading suspects would be poor connections and the starter solenoid, despite it's newness. I'd suggest that next time it happens, take a single battery jumper cable and bypass the ground strap by going direct from the (+) terminal to some good naked contact on the engine block (you can leave the existing cable in place). If that doesn't do it, then use the cable to make a momentary contact between the (-) battery cable at the terminus of that cable on the starter solenoid.

Let us know what the results are. Others I'm sure will have some other suggestions.

Am wondering about the possibility heat is expanding or warping something around the carburetor switch. Assuming you still have to press pedal to start and since you mention no clicks but all working inside car would also look there. If a different starting arrangement, then not the issue.

If you do have it, IIRC, there is a small ball that energizes the switch via a cam type mechanism when the accelerator is pressed. When the car starts, vacuum sucks that ball up so it can't energize any more until engine quits. If something is preventing the ball from dropping down until it cools, or one of contacts not making that would cause the problem.

In addition to Owen-Dyneto's suggestions of cable connections and ruling out the solenoid quitting under a heat soak, would also get a small jumper to try bypassing that switch next time it happens. I believe both terminals are open & accessible to just short together.

I agree with HH56. Based on your description of the problem, I'd start with checking the carburetor switch. Just jumper the two screws to see if it turns over.

My first thought when I read this post was that the starter switch was defective. Simply bypassing the switch by joining the two wires should resolve that. I am wondering if the ignition switch itself may have a poor power connection. The switch is a bit hard to reach it is possible especially if the bezel is removed and the switch pushed back. Of course it may be a poor contact in the switch. Best to just start seeing if all wires and contacts are solid and work from there.

I have seen this problem on other old cars. The ignition switch did not work reliably because it was getting worn.

The solution was to add a Ford starter relay, wiring the original ignition switch to actuate the relay.

This relieved the load on the old switch and allowed it to function normally and no doubt, extended its life considerably.

I don't know if this applies to Packards, but it might be something to consider.

All of the possibilities listed above are good places to look. However, another possibility is that the throttle linkage is adjusted too tight trying to force the linkage against the idle stop. My 22nd series had the problem. I loosened mine slightly and it has worked fine since. It's an easy thing to check. Who knows, it might help.

Very good point, because the ball can't drop back down to activate switch if the cam isn't just right.

Thanks to everyone for all your great replies.

I disconnected the positive cable to the engine tonight and cleaned that end. It wasn't all that tight.

Next I took a good look at the terminal. it appearded to be tight, but looked like the metal was staring to crack. When I took it off the battery, it started to come apart.

I replaced the terminal with a universal. (if anyone thinks a whole new cable would work better (look better, too)I could get a new one.

I drove it for several miles and then turned it off and let it sit for 15 minutes.

It started right back up! I'll try it again when its warmer outside, (about 80 today) and see what happens;

Thanks again for all your interest and replies.