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Now before anyone starts the Henry Ford Memorial Union Bashing contest let me say this, I'm a member of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, and I'm of the opinion that they do pretty darn good for the employees. We have a starting wage at Cessna Wichita that's over $14.00 an hour, as compared to the Cessna plant in Independence, Ks, that's only around $8, with no Union presence. I have good benefits, the best insurance in town, and get a $.26 raise every 90 days, along with a Union negotiated raise every year. (The last contract was 5-4-4, meaning a 5% raise the first year, then 4%, then 4% for the final year of the contract.) I'm a Union Steward, and I believe that the Union has done great things for the workers. However, on the flip side, I think the Union can go too far, and drive a company to ruin if they get too much leeway.

If corporations were honest and took care of their workers like they should, there would be no need for Unions. But of course they don't, so natural order requires the workers to be organized to protect themselves from being trampled on. Take it how you want, but if it wasn't for Unions, we'd still have unsafe work conditions, 10-12 hour days, and be like the sweat shops in Asia. Anyone want that?

I'm more or less neutral on unions. They absolutely do good things and sometimes employers fear a union drive and act accordingly but some bad things too. In my younger days, a large national union tried to organize my profession nationwide. Company officially neutral but against of course, but in the process 2 offices were forced to go union--threats, firebombed office, and vandalized cars finally tipped the point. For the unfortunate guys that had to join, they were much worse off under the union than they would have been since all offices had been run the same and the rest of us stayed as before. Those 2 offices had to adhere to a strict contract in place with other workers all across the 2 cities.

I'm glad it has worked out for you, but also can't help but wonder which plant will get the most scrutiny should your employer have hard times.

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There was just a news story on saying the reason he was picked as the sacrificial is because he wasn't aggressive enough in containing costs, revamping product lines and in effect "had his head in the sand as to what needed to be done" the last 8 years while market share went to hell. Apparently the new guy has turned around several other big companies in worse shape and this one makes decisions so as the old saying goes "heads will roll".

The Chrysler guy has no previous auto experience baggage so wouldn't have been seen as big of a shock to the affected parties. I think the admin has already written them off anyway. Fiat didn't sell much over here before as I recall so they have some baggage to overcome as well even if they do join forces.

EDIT: Another news show says the new guy that turned around companies is on the board. The one doing day to day running is decisive.

Guscha: I think that I remember that under Wagonor GM has lost $82 BILLION DOLLARS and the stock value has dropped by 95%.

Just a side note Christian Streiff head of Peugeot was also fired today.


John F. Shireman

I've been a die hard chrysler guy all my life. and i'd hate to see them go under. but honestly they have not made anything that i've been willing to buy, with the exception of the first gen intrepid since '93. i'd love to have a challenger, that's the only current product of theirs i'd want. and i can't afford it. so i'll buy a toyota or a subaru if i buy anything new. not even my beloved v.w.'s are very affordable any more. and they are expensive as hell to fix if something internal breaks! Eric i hope you keep good tabs on the Jetta!

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Let's not go there....It was cheaper to fix the Patrician.....

To the Union guys that so staunchly abide by the Union.

Tell me how much you will support the Union when the day comes 3 weeks before Christmas when you are told that there will be a strike vote because the Unions are looking out for you and the vote is no strike and the day before Christmas your out on a pickett line and you discover you can't find anyone who voted for the strike except the Union management and they are outnumbered 100 to 1 by rank and file and yet your out on strike and now have no money for food let alone Christmas. And please do not say it never and/or does not happen, it happened to my father 3 times and the poor fool applauded the Union and everything it did for him and forgot all the screwings it did to him. To me the Union and it's $24 per hour bolt fitters on the line is what drove the price of a car up to the 20K mark and beyond.

AL: For one of the rare times I have to agree with you about unions.

Let me tell you about my father and how foolsih he was and the union he belonged to and what that union did to him.

In the mid 50's my father was able to join the IBEW which taught him a trade, that of being an electrician for over 30 years before retiring. My father learned a good trade because of that union and helped him make a good hourly wag.
By joining the IBEW enabled him to learn a good trade and earn good wages over the years. By earning that good wage it helped provide a wife and two sons with a fine home, which I might ad my father built that home with his own two hands and very little help. This is because of the skills that he learned over the years being a member of the IBEW.

The good money that my father earned because of being a union member also helped pay for good educations for the sons that he help bring into this world.

Because of the trade skills that my father was able to learn being a union member, enabled him to pass down his skills and knwolegde to a son that was able to start his own business.

I sit back and say THANK YOU GOD that my father was such a foolish man for being a union member. In most cases I fully support unions.

There were times that I might not have agreed with my father on somethings that he did. However I would never call my father a fool in public or private for the decisions tha he made.Hhe was doing what your father did just doing what he thought was right.




John F. Shireman

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For what it's worth foreign cars don't appear to be selling either. There's an article on CNN.comhttp://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/wayoflife/04/01/aa.cars.built.before.sold/index.html that there is a 245 acre parking lot between the port of Los Angeles and Long Beach that is filled with cars, mfgs are leasing extra space at businesses & airports and thousands more cars are on container ships anchored waiting to unload or still at sea.

Have you heard the latest? Obama announced on Monday that unless GM can negotiate with their creditor to renew $1 billion of short term debt, there will be no bailout.

http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aCgxXtzF6ki8&refer=home

This effectively means GM is doomed and the white house knows it. Here's why.

The big banks are not going to negotiate on that debt if they have Credit Default Swaps from AIG. So far, everyone who holds such CDS's has been paid off 100% by the US taxpayer. So why should they take any less?

They will let GM go into bankruptcy before they do that.

The banks know this and the white house knows this.

The union will have to reduce their health care fund demands as well. Fat chance. They have already made their position plain.

Too bad about the little guys who hold GM notes with no CDS protection. Too bad about the shareholders. Too bad about their creditors, the parts suppliers who will go bankrupt, and all the GM employees and others who get hosed.

But it might just save GM. If they can be reorganized with no debt and no pension liabilities, basically start over from scratch, they should be able to compete in the market and show a profit.

It's interesting that the president and congress will pay anything - ANYTHING - billions or trillions of dollars to bail out the crooks who caused this mess. Even though the dud banks could be written off and no one would miss them. But they won't do anything to keep the auto industry in the US, even though once it's gone it can never be replaced.

O ya the president's advisers are all from the same banks that caused this mess in the first place.