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I live in California and have purchased an out of state pre-war Packard with a replacement Packard tag on the firewall. The CA highway Patrol has refused to accept the VIN number inscribed (not stamped) on this replacement tag.

How might I proceed so that I can register this car in California?

Thanks,

BillyT

DMV can be a pain in the you know where when it comes to registration. I really think it depends on the mood of who you draw at the counter as to how it will go. The fact DMV is taking all the political heat for being backlogged etc right now probably doesn't help. Packard Don who posts here often lives in the San Jose area and is a licensed vehicle inspector and authenticator and might have some ideas.

I can say when I bought my first Packard I had the correct paperwork but the registered owners signed off on the wrong line and were deceased so couldn't correct it. I got a royal runaround over multiple trips. Finally had to have the car inspected, have a registered letter sent to the last known address, post a bond, and still had everything in suspense tag for a year to ensure no claims were made in that year before getting new tags that were clear in my name..

My 47 was out of the system but did have an old registration and a bill of sale. According to the guy I bought the car from DMV didn't like the fact the number plate could be removed when they inspected and decided to register the car by the embossed body ID number that couldn't be removed rather than what was on the paperwork.

Is it the fact the numbers were written instead of embossed or something else that is causing the problem? There are some companies that will fill out the repro patent plates in embossed stampings so if the writing is the sticking point maybe that would be a way around it.

Is it the CHP that is giving you grief or the DMV?

It might be helpful if you post a photo here at PI of what you have inscribed. Also, it might be useful to have the Theft Proof number. We don't have much to go on with just this.

As HH wrote, the DMV is getting a lot of heat right now because of the way they are backlogging people - even ones with appointments. It didn't help their case that there is an up-'til-now secret DMV office in the capital in Sacramento where the State Senators and Assemblycritters and other Sacto bureaucrats can walk in and get immediate DMV service while we plebeians have to wait up to 3 months just to get an appointment - and then the appointments are running hours late once you check in.

G'day BillThompson,
to PackardInfo and good luck in your quest to register your Packard.

And....I invite you to include your Packard in the Packard Owner's Registry. You don't need to go through a bureaucratic process to do that!

As Howard mentioned, I am a VIN verifier and know that if the VIN appears to have been altered in any way, I cannot verify, making it an automatic referral to the CHP. Even the DMV cannot do it if it's been altered so, as was also suggested, you will probably have to buy a properly made and stamped reproduction plate. Once that's done and installed, you shouldn't have any problem.

As far as the DMV backlog, it is very true as I just had to make a 2 1/2 hour drive to get my driver license renewal before it expired even though I started the process within minutes of getting the renewal in the mail, the main backlog issue is to do with the new RealID requirement that one must have in order to fly and, even though the law was passed shortly after 9/11, everyone has waited to the last minute to get it done.

On the prewar Packards, at least those I've hav, the VIV appeared to have been stamped after the plate was affixed so it's possible that there might still be some hint of it underneath. For a while, the DMV was requiring two VINs on all vehicles but I've not researched enough to know of Packard had a second one, or the serial number, stamped in some hidden location. If they do, only the CHP is authorized to look for it.

As far as I know Packard never used a second "secret" hidden VN (vehicle number, not a VIN - that's entirely different). Their fourth significant and important number used on senior cars 1936 and earlier (and perhaps others) was the frame number, usually stamped on the frame side face just above the trunnion block (rear shackle of front left spring). It's a 6-digit number in the same series as the motor number and preceded and followed by a star.

I was just recently involved in preparing a California-titled 1934 1101 for export to Finland; even though the original patent plate and VN was available, it was titled by CA using the frame number and this the fourth time I've seen this, all on CA-titled 1936 or earlier Packards. The frame number is not recorded on the vehicle delivery card which for many years was the Packard document that recorded the VN, motor number, and theft-proof number in a single document.

Don, I also need to go in for a renew and when I made my appt, the backlog for the office I use was 5 weeks. I am officially over the hill and the last two were auto renewals so they are making me get a new photo and take the test for this one. Went in to pick up a handbook last week and can see where the real ID is a big snafu all around. True the law passed years ago but Calif is one of the last states to implement and get ready to issue them so it officially became available only in January of this year. Because of the state delay, people now only have a limited time left before it is mandatory to fly or go some places hence the current scramble. Add in a computer system that in spite of costing hundreds of millions so far still doesn't work right and it is bureaucracy and delay at the best.

Documentation seems to be the one big issue and not sure why the info is not getting out to the masses. When I went in for the booklet a clerk was going down one of the lines checking for proper paper for the real ID -- birth certificate, SS card or official document with full SS# on it and proof of current residency. Several in the line she checked did not have one of the items so if they made an appt they wasted a slot and could not have got the thing if they did reach the window.

I am well-into being a senior too but my renewal, which was due on my birthday a couple days ago, was a mail-in. Unfortunately, to add RealID requires a personal visit and you're right Howard, hardly anyone else who came in while I was there had what they needed but fortunately the Paso Robles DMV had no lines and I was in and out very quickly, even getting a new number at the last minute to get a couple undated moving permits for my 1985 Mustang 5.0.

One needs their original birth certificate or a notarized copy, SS card OR SS Statement OR payroll statement with the SS number, valid passport and a utility or other bill with the same name and address on it. I don't know what people do when they do not have a passport or do not pay their own utilities. I brought everything needed and my license arrived in the mail exactly a week later but I saw no one else while I was there with everything the needed.

I didn't think that Packard used hidden numbers either although during the time when the DMV was requiring two VINs, I would sometimes use a serial number that many '60s cars have as the second VIN which was often stamped somewhere under the hood or, in one case, under the rear seat. It was only the serial number, not the entire VIN, but as long as it matched, that was close enough for me.