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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
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Ross
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The limit switches only allow the solenoids to fire and send power to the motor or not. Therefore they can not keep the motor from running if you apply power to the motor.

Posted on: 3/27 11:45
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
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CarFreak
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Alright!! I robbed some time in the garage and did ad you requested Ross:

I removed the clip (a lot easier than I expected it to be) and noticed the brush holders were frozen not allowing the brushes to contact the armature properly. Got them freed up with some good snap back action and closed it up.

With the 30 amp fuse out of the fuse holder I connected the battery cables up and put a jumper cable between the positive post of the battery and post “F” on the compensator motor and it moved!! Tried the same on “A” but with all the corrosion I needed to scrape a little to get a good connection. But I did get it to move when connected to “A” as well! I’ll clean up those connections now

Alright. What’s next?

Posted on: 3/27 17:39
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
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Ross
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Put your 30 amp fuse back and see if you can make the motor run by grounding the small terminals on the solenoids.

Posted on: 3/27 20:14
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
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CarFreak
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Okay, put the fuse in and connected the battery. The compensator motor automatically kicked on and lowered the rear all the way down until I guess it hit the limit switch? However, this happened with the under dash switch in the off position.

Either way. I was able to get the motor to turn when grounding either of the top terminals on the solenoids. But if I tried to raise the rear the motor would just lower it once I got off the top terminal.

Where do I go from here?

Again, I appreciate all the help!

Posted on: 3/28 18:05
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
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Ross
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Something is hooked up wrong or the under dash switch is facing the wrong way. There must be no power to the the center green wire in the controller when the dash switch is off.

If the turnbuckle connecting the torsion bar to the controller is way out of adjustment or the rod is bent the controller will run the leveler to attempt to bring its lever to the neutral position regardless of the car's position.

Disconnect the rod at the controller and move its arm to the neutral position. Use your solenoids or work the controller to bring the car to level. Adjust the turnbuckle to suit and reassemble.

Posted on: 3/28 19:21
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
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CarFreak
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Quote:

Ross wrote:
Something is hooked up wrong or the under dash switch is facing the wrong way. There must be no power to the the center green wire in the controller when the dash switch is off.

If the turnbuckle connecting the torsion bar to the controller is way out of adjustment or the rod is bent the controller will run the leveler to attempt to bring its lever to the neutral position regardless of the car's position.

Disconnect the rod at the controller and move its arm to the neutral position. Use your solenoids or work the controller to bring the car to level. Adjust the turnbuckle to suit and reassemble.


Alright Ross!!

First thing was I disconnected the turn bucket at the controller so I knew it was in the center position and checked that the dash switch was in the off position. Connected the battery and the back end dropped. I checked the green wire at the controller and it did not light my test light. I turned the switch to the on position and that green was hot when I tested it with the test light.

I did try to move the arm on the control box after the back end sank, but nothing happens

Does this prove my issue is with the control box? I do have other ones here I can try.

Also. The solenoids on the fender have rubber insulators that mount them to the inner fender. However, on the Caribbean they are bolted straight to the fender. Do they need to be ground through their mounting or not? Or does it not really matter? The rubber is cracking and falling apart

Posted on: 4/8 18:16
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
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humanpotatohybrid
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I'm just going to chime in to remind you to check both the connection quality (clean connectors) and also check for continuity between suspect connections.

For example, if the system seems to be ignoring a switch, ohm between the terminals that it connects to and try to activate the switch. It's certainly possible that the module has problems but it's best to test through the rest of what could cause the same problem before replacing it.

Chewed through wires are not uncommon in cars that have sat a while, for example. Plenty of them on my Clipper when I got it.

Posted on: 4/8 19:41
'55 400. Needs aesthetic parts put back on, and electrical system sorted.
'55 Clipper Deluxe. Engine is stuck-ish.
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
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CarFreak
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I got a little time to look into this a little more.

I did not see any chewed through wires, and all the connections I made while putting the car together involved light sanding on the terminals and adding dielectric grease.

So far I have tried 3 compensator boxs:

Box one: originally came on the car. I am getting some clicking when its installed on the car when I move and hold the rotating arm.

Box two: looks the best, has a date painted on it of 1961. Automatically moves the rear of the car down regardless of the position of the on off switch.

Box three: doesnt do anything unless you touch the threads of one of the screws in the area of where you connect the wires. if that is done, the car will plant the rear of the car on the ground.


Below I added screen shots of what John Lauter (who I believe is Mr. Pushbutton on here) posted on facebook regarding the operation of the control box. I will use his terminology and his indicators he put on his attached photos.

I opened up box one and box two. I connected the green terminal on the box to the positive side of the battery and attached the base plate of the box to the negative side of the battery. I rotated the rotating arm so I was getting contact in the timing box marked "A". On both box 1 and box 2 I was seeing movement in the time delay switch marked "B". depending on which side I moved the rotating arm too the time delay switch would have the arm move to the closest terminal for that. So I can assume that on both box 1 and box 2 that the timing section of the boxes are in working order.

On box 1 I was seeing (and heard while under the car) movement of the C&D relays trying to close. However, the contacts on the copper arm were not moving enough to make contact with their corresponding terminals on the steel arms below.

On Box 2 I was not seeing any movement of the relays C &D.


I believe I found my issue of the leveling not working. The third photo shows a close up of the C&D relays where the copper armed terminals and steel arm terminals would make contact. In order to get box one to work, can I just bend the steel arm terminals closer so that the terminals will make contact once those relays see power?

Seeing that I have 2 boxes that have no movement of the C & D relays. Is there a place I can send them to get them rebuilt? Can I get new relays like them? or could there be enough tarnish/corrosion at the terminals that are preventing a good connection when they close? could I lightly sand the contact terminals?

I heard of the solid state conversion for these, but I heard that they dont function as well? is that true?

thanks again for all the help!

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Posted on: 4/12 12:21
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
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HH56
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With it failing with 3 control switches, does the leveler move in both directions if you use a small jumper wire and manually ground the solenoid wires at the control box? Touching the ground to either double terminal at the outside end on each side will bypass the limit switches and directly command the solenoids. Since you are bypassing the limit switch make sure a bar is not close to or will be driven into the center of the compensator and only touch long enough to see if it moves. If that works then you can be reasonably sure the solenoids and wiring to them is OK and you can concentrate on the limit switch or control box.

If one direction does not move by grounding the double terminal check to see if there is voltage at that same point. The way the solenoids are internally connected, they need a ground supplied by the control switch to work. At the outside double terminals you should be able to measure 12v to ground which is the voltage coming thru the solenoid winding. A solenoid coil could have failed or some have mistakenly tried to use an ordinary starter solenoid in place of the type the TL needs. Some cars have also had solenoids where water has gotten inside and corroded things to the point the plunger could not move.

If all that is good, then back to the command circuits. Control box inner contacts -- even in NOS switches off the shelf -- can oxidize from sitting and not pass enough current to bring the solenoids in. The limit switch plunger can stick keeping the switch open and the wire where it fastens to the terminal on the back of the limit switch can break. This is fairly common on the switch near the driveshaft if the wires are bundled and pulled tight. You can test them by trying the ground again at the single terminal to either side of the center green power wire.

Posted on: 4/12 12:55
Howard
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
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Mr.Pushbutton
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I'd check the spacing on the contacts for the time delay switch, the one on the left looks far away, should be more straight up and down.
Are you sure you are getting a good ground on all three boxes?

Posted on: 4/12 14:20
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