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Re: Tappet Clearance Tool J-4540? Valve Guide Driver J-2577?
#11
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JeromeSolberg
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Thank you!

I'll report back.

After so much time and effort, we are closing in on actually having the engine re-assembled!

Posted on: 2021/2/7 18:07
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Re: Tappet Clearance Tool J-4540? Valve Guide Driver J-2577?
#12
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JeromeSolberg
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Hi Folks,

Well, I got the Valve Guides out, as mentioned. Gosh that really required some violence. And the dry ice (available it turns out at most Safeway Grocery Stores in the Western U.S.) really helped with putting them in. It took such brutal hammering to get them out that i was extra careful putting them in, used the dry ice and also some grease, after cleaning the holes very carefully.

Some interesting information and a question:

I bought 4 tools to do this:

1. HD-343 (it says JB Tools on it) 11/32" hand valve guide driver from CylinderHeadSupply.com (Woodward Equipment). That has a large head on it which turned out to be best for driving the valve guides out by hand. By the time I was done the head was significantly mushroomed and the driver seating face was deformed. But it made it through 16 valve guides. Every valve guide I tried broke at the top by the time I took them out (see the pick for a comparison of a valve guide I took out and a new valve guide). The Valve Guides that came in the Kanter kit were slightly different in detail from what I took out, but matched the lengths and other important specs with what I saw in the car and what has been published. The intake valve guides are 3" long, tapered at the top, and the exhaust valve guides are 3 5/32" long, not tapered, with a small machined relief at the top, as published in another thread by "56Executive" :

403136 id .344 od .634 length 3 5/32 G631 exhaust
403137 id .344 od .634 length 3 G632 intake
source
Ohio Piston Pin catalog

2. Goodson Manual Valve Guide Driver GP-534-G. This has as smaller head than the JB HD-343 but is otherwise similar.

3. Goodson Air Hammer Valve Guide Driver, PH-2229-G

Both the Goodson tools have the dimensions: SAE - .343" x .487" x .337"

4. According to the Packard manual, a single tool (J-2577) was used to install and set the valve guide heights independent of exhaust or intake I used a 12" combination square like this:

https://www.acehardware.com/department ... carpentry-squares/2808459

I was having problems with my air compressor and could only get it up to 60 psi, but I find it hard to believe the air hammer would have been able to get the valve guides out with even double the pressure (the one I got from Harbor Freight was limited to 90psi). I ended up having to drive them out manually, much to the consternation of my neighbors who got to listen to about 6 hours of pounding spread out over a few weekend afternoons. I used a lot of wood blocks to shield the block from errant hammer blows, as recommended (thanks!).

I measured all my old valve guides before I took them out and found that they were uniformly (to within measurement error) 1" from the deck, which was a convenient number. One thing I found was that, at first, i tried to measure it with the distance fixed using the setscrew in the combination square. I found that it would move a little while I was measuring a "not deep enough yet" valve guide, probably because I was pushing down too hard. I found the best method was to put the square on the block, lower the ruler to the guide, lock it with the setscrew, then release and look at it. Much more reliable.

I used the Goodson hand driver to put the valve guides in, as I did such damage to the JB HD-343 when pounding the old valve guides out. Packed in Dry Ice for 5 hours and with a little bit of grease they went in pretty easy, the tool doesn't look damaged at all, and I didn't have to pound very hard in comparison to what it took to take them out. I even put one valve guide in too deep accidentally, and was able to pound it through and re-insert it from the top.

My one problem is that I found that 2 of the intake valve guides, while pounding them out, the "pillar" surrounding them cracked, basically took out a little half-moon section, where the cross section is thinnest.

At the time I was thinking, well, it came off pretty clean and didn't create any deep cracks or anything, so I guess I'll just put the new ones in, nothing much else i can do otherwise.

Now I'm thinking maybe i should try to smooth it out with a Dremel, or maybe (OMG!) pound those two out so I can really go to town to smooth those things out with a Dremel.

So my question is: Has this happenned to you or anyone before? What did they/you do?

Thanks in Advance,

Jerome

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Posted on: 2021/2/23 19:23
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Re: Tappet Clearance Tool J-4540? Valve Guide Driver J-2577?
#13
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JeromeSolberg
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Instead of pounding out the two valve guides where the boss was chipped, I made a SCREW PRESS, out of 5/16" threaded rod, standard 5/16" nuts, and some spacers and washers, all purchased at a hardware store for $10. WORKED PERFECTLY.

I got the idea from this video made for pulling the valve guides on a flathead Hudson:

Flathead Hudson Valve Guide Pull

So much easier, less violent, and less dangerous (both to ones' person and to the block) than pounding them out. I used standard Grade 2 threaded rod, at one point it started to strip, I just moved things down to a different thread. However, Grade 5 and Grade 8 threaded rod is also available and one might instead use that. The guides were undamaged. It was a simple process and TOOK MUCH LESS TIME than pounding each guide out did. The block was out of the car but this same process should be possible with the guide in the car as well.

Subsequent to getting those two out, I used a Dremel to smooth and round where the bosses were chipped, which wasn't too hard. Hope that works. I intend to use the dry ice method and tap them in again as before, though it should be possible to use the screw press in reverse as well, I may do that if they don't go in easy.

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Posted on: 2021/3/11 18:30
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Re: Tappet Clearance Tool J-4540? Valve Guide Driver J-2577?
#14
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kevinpackard
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We used a similar setup when we installed the valve guides in my dad's '38 Super 8 engine rebuild. Actually, we did it twice because like an idiot I installed the guides upside down....so I got to remove them all and redo them the correct way.

The screw press was very easy, though a bit time consuming.

-Kevin

Posted on: 2021/3/11 19:39
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Re: Tappet Clearance Tool J-4540? Valve Guide Driver J-2577?
#15
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JeromeSolberg
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Easy! Cheap! Cannot accidentally hurt yourself or (perhaps more importantly) the block!

Note higher strength (e.g. better than standard hardware-store (Grade 2) threaded rod) can be ordered from places like McMaster-Carr:

McMaster-Carr Threaded Rod

Though I still might get one of the manual valve-guide drivers from Goodson, et. al. for putting the guide in, after letting sit in dry ice for a few hours.

Posted on: 2021/3/11 21:35
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Re: Tappet Clearance Tool J-4540? Valve Guide Driver J-2577?
#16
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JeromeSolberg
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Just as a note - was able to get the last two valve guides re-installed, using dry ice again. Didn't use any grease this time, they went in fine. Next to do a little hand-lapping of the valves before final cleaning of the block and re-assembly.

Posted on: 2021/3/14 17:24
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Re: Tappet Clearance Tool J-4540? Valve Guide Driver J-2577?
#17
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John
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Have you reamed the guides for clearance??

Posted on: 2021/3/14 17:51
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Re: Tappet Clearance Tool J-4540? Valve Guide Driver J-2577?
#18
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JeromeSolberg
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John,

Re: Reaming the Guides for Clearance:

Good point! I was going by the statement that "in the last few years using Egge or Kanter guides reaming has not been necessary", but it seems like best practice. I found the following video which seems like a good tutorial:

Willys F-head valve guide install/reaming

starting around the 7:30 mark

The manual says use a standard 11/32" reamer. Is this one appropriate?

0.3435" (11/32") Cast Iron Valve Guide Finish Reamer

Anything else I should be aware of?

Thanks in advance

Jerome

Posted on: 2021/3/15 20:25
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Re: Tappet Clearance Tool J-4540? Valve Guide Driver J-2577?
#19
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John
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I'd hope someone else will chime in on this. I'm no expert on this, but I've always read about the need to ream the guild for proper clearance in the repair manuals.

Posted on: 2021/3/15 20:33
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Re: Tappet Clearance Tool J-4540? Valve Guide Driver J-2577?
#20
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John
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The reamer you show would appear to be the proper type to use.

Posted on: 2021/3/15 20:34
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