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Wiring Diagram for R-6 Overdrive
#1
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Ernie Vitucci
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Good Evening...It looks like I'm going to be part of a group to hook up an R-6 in a 1941 110!

A bit of a back story...Our Model A Ford Club has several members who also own Packards...myself included...as many of you know.

One of our members purchased this 110 and it just had a 3 speed...He went to one of the suppliers and purchases another three speed with the overdrive attached. He has installed it and it works fine as a three speed...They have not figured out how to wire the overdrive...or what extra parts are necessary...

I would love to have a wiring diagram in color...and a list of what 'extras' will be needed in order to make this overdrive function. I have not seen the car...am just sort of doiinng some down field blocking, just in case.

How the hell did we get into this possible job? The shop rebuilt the engine in this fellow's 29 Model A Roadster!

Funny how the world turns...Thanks for any help that comes my way...Ernie in Arizona

Posted on: 5/14 18:51
Caretaker of the 1949-288 Deluxe Touring Sedan
'Miss Prudence' and the 1931 Model A Ford Tudor 'Miss Princess'
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Re: Wiring Diagram for R-6 Overdrive
#2
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HH56
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Here is a diagram showing the two versions of the 39 wiring. Sorry I don't have anything in color.

The first version uses what appears to be an ordinary horn relay. The later version has an extra connection on the relay for power from the ignition switch.

Not having a drawing showing the contacts inside the components I can only guess as to what is happening with the relay and switches -- or even the solenoid when it provides the ign cutout ground. There is a very limited description of the R6 OD in the 38-39 service manual but I have not studied it in detail or looked in a Motors Manual to better understand the operation of the semi electric unit as compared to the later R9 and R11 full electric units.

It is possible some easy to find modern relays and a universal kickdown switch would work but won't say that as definite until studying the operation a bit more. Of course the solenoid itself would be special to that OD and hopefully still on the unit you are installing. There does not appear to be an electrical lockout switch as was on the later units so an ordinary modern universal lockout cable assy could be used if something more period appropriate is not found.

Attach file:



jpg  R6OD.jpg (221.72 KB)
209_609f17c900516.jpg 1225X1870 px

Posted on: 5/14 19:39
Howard
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Re: Wiring Diagram for R-6 Overdrive
#3
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Ernie Vitucci
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Thank You Howard...This is a good start...I suspect much to learn...Ernie in Arizona

Posted on: 5/14 20:46
Caretaker of the 1949-288 Deluxe Touring Sedan
'Miss Prudence' and the 1931 Model A Ford Tudor 'Miss Princess'
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Re: Wiring Diagram for R-6 Overdrive
#4
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Ernie Vitucci
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Just as an aside...my humble volunteer rank is...Assistant Parts Washer! Ernie

Posted on: 5/14 20:49
Caretaker of the 1949-288 Deluxe Touring Sedan
'Miss Prudence' and the 1931 Model A Ford Tudor 'Miss Princess'
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Re: Wiring Diagram for R-6 Overdrive
#5
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Ozstatman
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Quote:
Ernie Vitucci wrote: Just as an aside...my humble volunteer rank is...Assistant Parts Washer! Ernie
I can relate to that! In my years at Wade's Workshop rose to the lofty heights of Chief Parts Washer.

Posted on: 5/14 20:57
Mal
/o[]o\
====

Bowral, Southern Highlands of NSW, Australia
"Out of chaos comes order" - Nietzsche.

1938 Eight Touring Sedan - SOLD

1941 One-Twenty Club Coupe - SOLD

1948 Super Eight Limo, chassis RHD - SOLD

1950 Eight Touring Sedan - SOLD

What's this?
Put your Packard in the Packard Vehicle Registry!
Here's how!
Any questions - PM or email me at ozstatman@gmail.com
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Re: Wiring Diagram for R-6 Overdrive
#6
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Ernie Vitucci
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I understand...I come home so dirty that I sometimes have to undress in the garage...grease in all sorts of places from head to toe! Ernie

Posted on: 5/14 21:15
Caretaker of the 1949-288 Deluxe Touring Sedan
'Miss Prudence' and the 1931 Model A Ford Tudor 'Miss Princess'
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Re: Wiring Diagram for R-6 Overdrive
#7
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DavidPackard
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Ernie & Howard

I was looking at the wiring diagrams, and found the same artwork in a prewar Motor’s Auto Repair Manual. I also remembered that Tinman was talking about OD electrical parts for his car, so I pulled up the website that he mentioned. If my interpretation of this information is correct the R-6 solenoid is powered to electrically ‘get-out’ or ‘stay-out’ of OD . . . . Is this correct ????????

If true that would make the logic of the reverse and kickdown switches unique to the early overdrive units. It will certainly alter the parts needed if a non-OEM system is put together. Also if this information is correct the R-6 OD should work without any wiring connected. It would not have reverse protection (that’s not good), or a kickdown function (you really don’t need a passing gear), but it will shift into OD. I haven’t found information about a lock-out cable, but how else would you sell a car in San Francisco without a means to lock-out the ‘free-wheeling’ function. My Motor’s manual doesn’t talk about any differences between six or eight cylinder OD units.
Here’s the info I found:

Borg Warner R10-R11 Overdrive Solenoid Reducer 12Volts to 6 volts (vintageautogarage.com)

I know the product is for a 6 to 12 V conversion but part way down the product description is the following;

Excerpt:
Note Regarding R6 and R7 Overdrives.
The R7 installed in Chryser/Desoto/Nash/Hudson/Packard cars is a semi-electric type OD where the upshift is entirely done by centrifugal governor inside the OD. The only thing the Solenoid is used for is kickdown while still above the OD threshold of 25-35 MPH, means there is only power to the solenoid during kickdown function.
Without the solenoid connected, the car should operate as the 1st generation OD’s from 1934 did – they had no kickdown function.
R6 was mostly used in 1939, and R7 mostly in 1940 & 1941. Between marques, there are different setups.

The website text continues with instructions for wiring the older designs, but let’s go back to the Motor’s manual. Here’s an excerpt that caught my eye, we’re in the paragraph about working on the 40-42 OD, “The new solenoid operates exactly opposite to that of the 1939, in that it pushes the pawl in when energized instead of out.”

This statement may only be information about the interchangeability of solenoids, not the wiring of same.

dp

Posted on: 5/15 13:34
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Re: Wiring Diagram for R-6 Overdrive
#8
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Ernie Vitucci
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Wow...most interesting...Thank You dp! Ernie

Posted on: 5/15 14:06
Caretaker of the 1949-288 Deluxe Touring Sedan
'Miss Prudence' and the 1931 Model A Ford Tudor 'Miss Princess'
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Re: Wiring Diagram for R-6 Overdrive
#9
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HH56
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I think the readable diagram did come from Motors although the 38-39 service manual has a poor reproduction of the same drawing.

The description kind of makes sense. The ign cutout circuit with the solenoid working the way the later solenoids do is what was confusing me.

If the solenoid does pull the pawl out when energized to drop out of OD then actuating the relay via kickdown with the throttle switch or reverse lockout makes more sense. Still trying to work out the cut out circuit since the book says it lasts for about 1/40 second. Be nice to know if the kickdown switch has two contact bars or one bar shared like the later switches. If two then making the upper portion to bring in the relay before breaking the lower ignition cutoff set could work although would still need to know when the cutout contacts in the solenoid operate to be sure. Later and modern kickdown switches share the contact bridge. In that switch the lower contact set used to power the relay breaks before the upper set to complete the cutout circuit makes. Either way, somehow a set of contacts in the solenoid provide the cutout ground but the question is when -- solenoid at rest or when energized or in a brief blip during movement.

Not sure where the book got the information on OD models used but I have never read in any Packard literature of an R7 being used. In 39 it was the R6 and in 40 they went to the full electric R9 and kept that thru mid 48.

Posted on: 5/15 14:13
Howard
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Re: Wiring Diagram for R-6 Overdrive
#10
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BDeB
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The 1939 Eight owners manual on this site has some information on the operation of the overdrive and indicates that there is a lockout cable.

Posted on: 5/15 14:27
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