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1941 super 8 locate bad lifters
#1
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29tons
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I had the engine running for about a 30 minutes. Pulled the valve covers off. with engine running warm I tried to locate the bad lifters tried slideing a feeler gauge in could only get it in 1 with a fare amount of force. tried using a stethoscope touching the block next to every lifter and do not here a difference. I did notice 2 lifters with more oil splashing from them than the others I thought they may be the bad lifters. I ran a direct line to lifters bypassing filter. the oil pressure warm is just under 40 psi. I want to make 100 precent sure I replace the correct lifters. I have an oil pressure pot I thought if I hook that up and pressurise the oil system may I could see the bad ones .If anyone has a way to detect the faulty lifter please let me know.

Posted on: 1/18 15:58
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Re: 1941 super 8 locate bad lifters
#2
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JeromeSolberg
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I actually touched the valve stems with the stethoscope. Rest the side of the stethoscope stem against the valve as it goes up and down. That seemed to do a much better job. Putting the stethoscope just on the block near the lifter was not nearly as telling. Ross if he's watching may have more advice.

But not to say that I'm completely done with my particular job as the engine is still not back together due to lack of time.

Posted on: 1/18 16:32
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Re: 1941 super 8 locate bad lifters
#3
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Wat_Tyler
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I seem to recall seeing something not all that long ago that said that new 356 lifters were purt-n'ar scarce as hens' teeth. And Google is nearly my BFF, so I looked for something about rebuilding hydraulic lifters. I found this:

This is a quote from Mr. David Vizard.

"Let's discuss cost savings on lifters. First, we all know that lifters cost money. Along with this we're also told that you must use new lifters on a new cam. At the risk of near-certain death by the hands of my friends in the cam industry, I have to say that's not quite true. I've used one set of lifters on as many as five different cams. The truth is, it's possible to recondition lifters yourself. The innards of a hydraulic lifter don't really wear out. Usually they become noisy due to dirt, preventing them from functioning as intended. Many lifters never get to this stage and all that wears is the lifter's face. I find it difficult to throw away a set of perfectly functional lifters that have worn only a couple of thousands off the face. To restore them to useable condition, I rub them, in a figure-eight pattern, on 100 grit emery paper on a flat surface such as a surface plate or a sheet of glass. About every half dozen passes I rotate the lifter a quarter turn. Whether we like it or not, this action generates a spherical radius on the lifter face. To check how things are shaping up, use a steel straight edge or a quality machinist steel rule, or best yet a precision square. By holding the lifter up to the light you'll be able to see the form taking shape. The edges should be about .001-.0015-in lower than the middle. Do not chamfer the edges of the lifter and do not put too fine a finish on the face as the coarser finish helps with rotation and break in. I have prepped lifters this way, which have subsequently run as many miles as could be expected of a new set."


I have read one of Vizard's books, and he seems (to me, at least) to understand engine theory as well as anyone else I have read and more than many. His explanation here seems simple and straight-forward. I pass it along both as an offer of help and as a filing system because I'm going to have some 356 sorting out to do and this way, this remedy will be easier to find.

Posted on: 1/18 19:36
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Re: 1941 super 8 locate bad lifters
#4
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JD in KC
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Quote:

29tons wrote:
...tried slideing a feeler gauge in could only get it in 1 with a fare amount of force...


The clearance on a pumped-up hydraulic lifter is 0. You should not be able to insert a feeler gauge.

Quote:

Wat_Tyler wrote:
...I rub them, in a figure-eight pattern, on 100 grit emery paper on a flat surface such as a surface plate or a sheet of glass...


I think you'll find that these instructions apply to a more modern hydraulic tappet. I don't think they apply to those found in a Packard 356.

Here's a blurry photo of a collapsed lifter in my 356 (far right). The engine was running at 500 RPM. The excessive oil flow is pretty obvious.

Attach file:



jpg  IMG_1610.JPG (639.88 KB)
188_61e97c38569a6.jpg 2048X1536 px

Posted on: 1/20 10:15
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Re: 1941 super 8 locate bad lifters
#5
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SteveP516
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This might answer some of your questions. It was a great help to me.

Ross Miller's Speedwell Garage



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWYycF-DpAA

Posted on: 1/20 13:53
Steve P
Forest, Va

1929 645 Dual Cowl Phaeton
1937 120C Conv Coupe
1940 1389 Conv Coupe
1940 1377 Super 8 160 Conv Sedan
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Re: 1941 super 8 locate bad lifters
#6
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Owen_Dyneto
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Mr. Vizard's comments on resurfacing the lifter face is only relevant for that type of lifter that rides directly on the camshaft, such as those in the Packard V8. It is not applicable to the Wilcox-Rich type lifters used 1954 and prior; they do not ride on the camshaft but are nested into a cam follower or tappet which is the item that rides on the cam surface. The surface of those cam followers can often be refinished if needed, they are slightly convex to facilitate rotation. They are surface-hardened so there are limits to how much metal can be safely removed in any resurfacing operation.

Posted on: 1/20 14:48
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Re: 1941 super 8 locate bad lifters
#7
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Wat_Tyler
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Okay, good information. I have 16 of those things sitting out in the engine I brought home with me, so as I get into it - if work will just back off for a bit and leave me be - I'll experiment with them. Looks a bit challenging, and I kinda like that.

Posted on: 1/21 5:31
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