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Re: Robert
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Quite a regular
 
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Thanks Howard, I can work with that. I was very active on an Impala forum ~10 years ago and I thought it had an easy way to insert photos as you went, but maybe not. Regardless, the tools are here to get my rambling points across.
Posted on: 2022/3/17 9:53
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- 1956 Patrician
- 1990 Miata - V8 swap under construction - 2021 Civic Type R - 2012 Yukon Denali - to tow the other three around |
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Re: Robert
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Home away from home
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I believe you can post photos inline if you’ve already uploaded them here or to some other server and have the URL. However, if you use the upload feature on the form, they will always go to the bottom.
Posted on: 2022/3/17 10:38
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Re: Robert's 56 Patrician
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Home away from home
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A few comments... • Nobody has said so but... Torsion bars on the rear of this Patrician appear to be wound all the way up. This is a problem that seems common these days for some odd reason to 1955-56 Packards that have been sitting for extended periods. The 1956 Caribbean convertible at Amelia Island this year (2022) was driven across the field after it won an award. Oddly it was driven with its rear end proudly raised up like a street racer and the young announcer proclaiming that "These Packards had airbag suspension!" (Why do magazines, YouTube videos, "documentaries" and insurance companies keep repeating this silly myth after all these years???). Anyway, your Patrician ought to be sitting level– not hiked up in the rear. I would –early on– want to take the pressure off of the torsion bars at the rear. No matter what the cause is. Put some juice to the system and do some trouble shooting to discover what's going on before it creates further issues. • Your skirts are missing. Skirts were not accessory items on these cars... they were body panels and need to be in position. The only reason they are removable is to access and remove rear tires. • Check to make sure that your brake stoplight switch is the correct 3-prong type and is working properly. • Bendix Treadle-Vac units almost always fail after sitting unused for extended periods. Yank it and re-build or replace with a good one. Be sure to purge the brake lines for dried and contaminated brake fluid. You don't need fancy bleeders or even helpers. I made a special tool consisting of clear vinyl tubing (it perfectly fit the bleeder screw) and a plastic one-way check valve. Loosen the bleeder screws (one at a time) on each wheel and pump a GOOD BTV. Any air and/or contaminants should come whooshing out. If you use the type of valve I used it will actually whistle while it works! • The Marvel Mystery Oil trick on old Packard V-8 engines is a method I personally have used since the 1960s. I have recommended it many times in many places in the past. However. My method was always as follows: 1.) Remove the spark plugs and spurt MMO in the plug holes with an oil skeeter. 2.) Pour a bit of MMO down through the carburetor. 3.) Let the whole engine sit for a few days so the MMO can do its magic. 4.) Hook a breaker bar on the vibration damper bolt and give the breaker bar a 180-degree turn. 5.) Allow the engine to sit for another day, then repeat with the breaker bar. 6.) With good plugs, points, condensor, cap, rotor and wires (and all in proper position)... Hook gasoline and juice to the engine and then try cranking. • REgarding no reverse...??? Which transmission? Pushbuttons or selector lever? Is linkage properly adjusted? All things that need to be checked and/or done.
Posted on: 2022/3/17 14:06
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Re: Robert's 56 Patrician
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Quite a regular
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I plan to hook power to the car and start with the kill switch under the dash for the torsion ride system, to see if it was raised up and turned off. I'll proceed from there if the power has been on for it. I've replaced most of the major components in my Yukon's magride with rear air spring leveling system, so this will be my second time diving in to an unfamiliar suspension to troubleshoot it. The fender skirts were in the floor when I bought the car, I haven't dug into what's left of the hardware to mount them yet. I think the wheels will be on and off a few times before it drives again. The trans is an ultramatic, the prior owner gave no indication of where in the system the issue might be. I'll start with the pushbutton panel and actuator module and work from there. The BTV isn't looking good in this car, the pedal has no return whatsoever at the moment. I already have a pressure bleeder and adapters for my Miata and Yukon, I'll adapt it to flush this system when the time comes as well. It makes one-man bleeding quite a bit easier. Will check the brake light switch as well.
Posted on: 2022/3/17 14:51
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- 1956 Patrician
- 1990 Miata - V8 swap under construction - 2021 Civic Type R - 2012 Yukon Denali - to tow the other three around |
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Re: Robert's 56 Patrician
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Home away from home
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Ahhhhh...
RE: suspension: Packard Torsion-Level suspension is an entire world away from air suspension, air springs, GM air shock levelizer, etc.etc. A whole world away. Get familiar with the Torsion-Level suspension (1956 flavor) at your earliest convenience. Like apples and grapes. You'll be happy you did, rather than try to do analysis first and learn later. RE: the brake light switch... Don't wait until you get into the brakes to look at the brake light switch. It does far more than just brake lights. The reason I pointed out checking this component is because it has deep interaction with the suspension. If the stop light switch is the wrong kind or is not working properly... the suspension will not work properly. Can't have one without the other. Packard Torsion-Level suspension was very, very advanced... and for instance had anti-dive and anti-squat functions. Something even many advanced cars don't have even today! These features run through the brake light switch. Whatever is wrong, you want to take the load off of the torsion bars at the rear. Having them torqued-up all the way like this for extended periods is hard on the torsion bars and can cause damage to the bars or other components. Like standing with your elbows locked, straight-armed for extended periods, holding up a weight... that's what it is like to the Packard. • RE: skirts... No special hardware is required. Just one single, simple hex-head bolt. If these are missing, they have been reproduced in stainless steel by a region of the Packard Club. • RE: BTV... As I said, it is typical for these to go bad, even just from sitting unused over extended periods. Again... yank it... rebuild it or replace with a good one. And as I mentioned, I never used a power bleeder or an assistant to bleed my own Packard V8 brakes, because of the tool I made. But I am sure a power bleeder will work nicely for you. Yessss, I know all about the Miata. I wrote the original factory shop manual for it. Wrote the Owner's Manual too. And I was responsible for doing the original New Model Training program for North America and English-speaking countries. I also did other things on the car and was an early test driver. I drove it both at Myoshi, Japan and in the USA. • RE: reverse gear on the push-button Ultramatic... Strongly suggest that you contact Mr. Pushbutton who posts on here and get his input on your system. Mr. Pushbutton is the pro from Dover when it comes to this subject. As pushbuttons age, they are sometimes prone to certain issues– many of which result purely from users not understanding the operation and best methods to care for the systems. Decades ago I developed my own methods for easing stress on Ultramatic pushbutton operation.
Posted on: 2022/3/17 18:31
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Re: Robert's 56 Patrician
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I've figured out the basic mechanics of the suspension, but I haven't gone through the literature to start pulling wiring info. The car spends most of it's time hanging from a two post lift for now, so the bars aren't normally loaded. The components are different from the Yukon, but the troubleshooting methods carry over. For symptom X, you probably start with sensor Y controlling actuator Z. Do the sensor and controller have power, is there continuity in the line from the sensor to the actuator, are there any relays involved, etc.
A well set up Miata is a wonderful thing, especially somewhere like VIR or Mid-Ohio. Mine have provided...an abundance of opportunities to assess electrical and mechanical issues. My first one especially was not treated kindly under prior ownership.
Posted on: 2022/3/17 20:51
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- 1956 Patrician
- 1990 Miata - V8 swap under construction - 2021 Civic Type R - 2012 Yukon Denali - to tow the other three around |
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Re: Robert
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Forum Ambassador
 
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In most of their literature Packard treated many switches and relays as black boxes just showing wires going in and out. To save you some time in searching here is the complete 56 TL diagram showing all contacts inside the control switch and solenoids. This also shows the manual switch wired in properly but that switch was a late arrival and an option so may not be on your car.
Note that if you need a new solenoid, even though they look the part they are not the typical starter solenoid you find in the parts store. On the TL solenoids the coils are connected to the battery internally and need a ground on the control terminal to operate. Cole-Hersee has a suitable replacement. Attach file:  56 with manual TL switch.jpg (94.31 KB)
Posted on: 2022/3/17 21:25
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Howard
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Re: Robert
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Beautiful, thank you. I've found a toggle switch under the dash that I'm guessing is the override switch. It would be nice if that were all that's happening here, but I doubt I'm that lucky.
Posted on: 2022/3/18 6:47
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- 1956 Patrician
- 1990 Miata - V8 swap under construction - 2021 Civic Type R - 2012 Yukon Denali - to tow the other three around |
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Re: Robert
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Forum Ambassador
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If you do not find a round knob next to the on/off switch -- or something similar under the dash edge -- as shown in this install illustration you probably do not have a manual overide switch -- at least not the factory version. There have been many variations of the switch and circuit installed by owners -- some properly and many not. Some of the incorrect versions have bypassed the limit switches and resulted in damage to the compensator or transverse bars when the mechanism traveled too far.
The factory switch has 3 positions and is not spring loaded. Many times an owner has found the rear end stuck up in the air refusing to come down and suspected TL issues. Turned out that the manual override switch had been accidentally bumped and since it is not spring loaded, switch stayed in the raise position keeping the car rear up. If you do not find a switch then that is not your problem but if you do find one it could be that simple. Attach file: manual override.jpg (286.23 KB)
Posted on: 2022/3/18 8:59
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Howard
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