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PackardInfo is a wonderful experience, a valuable assist to the hobby, and is populated with some very knowledgeable and clever people. If I have one lament, it's that more of the younger generation and many of the regular correspondents seem to steer away from the roots of the hobby, that is, preserving and enjoying a piece of rolling history and experiencing owning, maintaining and driving cars as they were.

But my recent post on another 12-volt conversion garnered some positive comments, so let me repeat that post here and perhaps we can dedicate this post to the various viewpoints on the two divergent paths of the hobby.

Arguements about "reliability" of 6-volt cars is of course, just nonsense. Wanting to add other conveniences that are 12-volt has some merit if you must add modern features. My 34 is as reliable as my new Lincoln, is driven regularly on tours up to a couple of hundred miles, and has only seen a trailer once (for the long trip to the Warren Centennial).

OMIGOD, another 12-volt conversion. Oh for the good old days when folks wanted to save a piece of history and experience what it was like to own, maintain and drive cars of a prior era. When I started in this hobby longer ago than I want to remember, it was all about preservation of cars of an older era, learning to maintain them, and getting the driving skills needed which were often different that we had learned. And preservation meant authenticity. Sure there was some restoration, but not to the standards we see today, more often than not a "restoration" was a home paint job, some reupholstery done by a handy owner or wife, and some plating. If you didn't have the mechanical skills to do your own work, you probably weren't in the hobby in the first place. We felt like we were preserving a piece of automotive history for future generations.

Today it seems the goal of so many is to have a Packard skin covering as many of the modern features as we can cram into it, A/C, disc brakes, alternators, 12-volt conversions, replacement transmissions and engines in some cases, tilt steering columns, etc. And of course a rationale for all those things. Nothing historically significant in that kind of a vehicle, and in some cases it certainly detracts from future value, but it's your $, just don't call it "restoration" - (from Webster's Unabridged - bringing back into a former unimpaired state)

I don't mean to rub anyone's nose out of joint with this, just reminiscing about how the hobby has changed. And in some ways, not for the better.

Dave,

Well stated. I was approached by a new owner of a pre-war junior Packard, while at the 32nd Texas Packard Meet in Salado last month. He questioned me about converting his car to an 8-volt system because the starter turned the engine too slowly, in his estimation. I encouraged him not to do this as the 6-volt system is more than up to the task. I advised him to make sure the starter and battery were in good operating condition, and to make sure he had the right size of battery cables and they were properly connected.

I was saying this when my own starter was not behaving well. Upon my return I overhauled the starter and installed a new solenoid switch. The starter now turns the engine over with authority. My car will never be a concours winner, but I strive to keep modifications to a minimum and preserve its character.

"Arguements about "reliability" of 6-volt cars is of course, just nonsense. Wanting to add other conveniences that are 12-volt has some merit if you must add modern features. My 34 is as reliable as my new Lincoln, is driven regularly on tours up to a couple of hundred miles, and has only seen a trailer once (for the long trip to the Warren Centennial)."

True!!! The problem here is that each individual car owner has varied resourses. As for myself and i'm guessing you too, we have plenty of 6v parts setting up on the shelf ready for installation on a moments notice, things like 6v bulbs, sealed beams, regulators, coils, generator brushes and so on. NOT everyone has that resource. It has taken me decades to build up the stock pile that quite frankly is beginning to wear thin.

The other problem is that one can not reasonably cary a spare of every maintenace part along with them on long trips. e.g. a sealed beam headlite. I can carry one thats true. A LOT EASIER to just stop at an auto parts store and buy a 12v bulb, beam, battery.

Note everyone has Kanter or other suppliers in their backdoor or a trailor on-call for towing.

My major disgust with NON-authentic restorations is in view of butchering original platform. e.g. cutting, drilling holes, excessive grinding, things like that.

Conversions or retro fit of non-authentic parts that is strictly a bolt-on application is not butchering anything. If someone doesn't like the mod then all they have to do is get out a wrench, remove the NON-authentic part and install the authentic part they like. When finished, there would be no evidence of any tampering having ever taken place.

Owen. Maybe u'd like set up some new rules for P'info.com???? Rules like the PAC site had where no one can discuss modifications at all??? Delete any posts that do not fit the clubbies agenda????

Maybe u'd like set up some new rules for P'info.com???? Rules like the PAC site had where no one can discuss modifications at all??? Delete any posts that do not fit the clubbies agenda????

Of course NOT - I almost find that remark insulting! I don't want to stifle input, just promote thought.

Aw cmon Keith, that isn't what Dave was talking about and you know it. I wonder what all the 12-volt disciples are going to do when the new standard (I understand 42 volts) takes affect. Gotta convert because 12 volts just doesn't kick it over fast enough? Even though my 400 has 12 volts I carry many spare parts as a normal thing to do. The new auto parts store doesn't stock a Packard water pump or won't bother finding me a matching fan belt. Is the answer to that to install a Chebby because the parts are easier to find?
On the other side of that,I installed halogen headlights and am installing relays so that the original headlight switch isn't burdened with the current they require. I consider that a safety issue, much like the radial tires I prefer.
I do agree with you about making any changes convertible back to original.

As long as the forum postings are respectful and gentlemanly I see no reason to set rules on what may or may not be discussed. Dave expressed an opinion based on his personal experiences as to why he does not feel that altering a car to 12 volt electric is necessary or desirable and gave examples and reasons for that opinion. He also shared that opinion in a respectful and non confrontational manner. Isn't this what this forum is all about; sharing and discussing opinions as well as diseminating knowledge?
I also converted my headlights to halogen and wired the lamps with relays. I also have a 6 volt to 12 volt converter wired to the cigar lighter to power the GPS and other accessories I may feel I need when on a trip. I have toyed with changing everything to 12 volt and adding a alternator etc. but I have also operated vehicles with 6 volt systems over many years even in the Canadian Arctic at -40 and found them to be as reliable as a 12 volt so for me the added expense and bother plus the loss of authenticity when showing the car does not seem to be worthwhile.

As a fellow that got into the hobby at my father's side, I am a big proponent of keeping it 'real':). In my view (and I am 41, btw) these are pieces of rolling art and history.

It is really fun, I think, to learn how these vehicles were designed, built and drove. Driving these old cars, as they were driven back when, helps me develop and maintain perspective on our modern times. As I drive down the country lane in my 34, I think about how much technology, landscape, society, etc. has changed in such an incredibly short time. And driving the car helps with this process. Much like riding a horse up to the edge of the east side of the Grand Canyon gives one a perspective on what it must have been like for the first explorers and first residents of that mighty desert. Driving a modern car just doesn't do it.

In a similar vein, working on these cars helps me develop an historical perspective on design, engineering, and manufacturing. I can read all day long, but getting my hands dirty really drives home the limitations of technology and the ingenuity of people when faced with technical limitations.

As for it being more difficult to maintain and work on these cars because of parts - well, Packard folks don't do easy! If we did, we would own a Chevy.

I understand the cost aspect as being daunting, and having cheaper parts available is attractive. But just as I don't own a house that I can't afford, I also don't work on cars that I can't afford, or am unwilling to save to buy, the parts.

Preserving, and in some ways participating in, history is not cheap or easy. But for me, and I suspect many others, the rewards well outweigh the time and monetary costs.

Be glad there is a hand full of younger generation doing anything with Packards. I hate to say it, but there is a tremendous glut of undervalued Packards in the world. Convert to 12 volts, alternator, radial tires, air conditioning, and power windows / locks so the car is family friendly; who are we to care one way or another. Many of these cars are worth under $1000.00 in barn find condition. The alternative is they get scrapped. Funny, when scrap prices were high and cars were going to the crusher in wholesale quantitie everyone was up in arms.

Packard suffers now from what it suffered when there were no longer enough people willing to buy Packards in their fateful final years. They are seen as stogy and un-cool by the majority of the young people actually interested in old cars. There are way more Packards than buyers. Obviously, I am not talking about $50,000 Packards; I am talking about the $700 to $7000 Packard.

When a younger generation person tries to get into the world of Packards, for the most part, everyone is fairly welcoming. I qualify that because there are always the usual suspects that are well intended, but come across as the resident authority with the final word on all things Packard. Dismissive attitudes and holier than thou members of anything be it a forum, a club, or what ever will find it nearly impossible to attract young people. Throw in the "I have a V-12 I am better than you, but don't be mad at me" resident nut that has had like 150 alias user names and been thrown out of every forum, yet returns to piss and moan about how bad 51 to 56 Packards are, and how the hoods flap, and the Ultramatic's suck, it's no wonder younger people would have a damn thing to do with a Packard. If I were a younger member (In reality I am middle aged, but definitely younger in the Packard world) and just bought one of the many affordable Packards and walked into that environment, I would say, "the hell with this, I am out of here".

Funny how quickly we forget that the younger fellow who started this site, and has about single handedly brought Packard interest into the 21st century, has just such a vehicle. My opinion, rock on! Every person willing to save any old car and invest good money after bad on top of time and effort is a hero and doesn't need grief for some great effort.

I am not into modifying Packards. I have a 6 volt system and bi-ply tires. Many that cry about not converting to 12 volts out of the left side of their mouth preach radials out of the right side. I suppose that double standard is ok. Well, it is ok! We are all aloud to do as we please with our cars. While I encourage proper tires, and other sundry items, I do not let what others do to their car bother me.

These "younger people" are not going to put up with lectures. If we want to share our opinions, fine, but let's be open and willing to teach and mentor. If the younger person does not go the way we wish, let's not get snippy or dismissive. If not, there will be fewer and fewer "younger people" willing to invest 3 to 4 times the cash and time as an old Packard is actually worth just to be lectured by the "old crowd"

Jim