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Re: 356 & 359 info and choices.
#11
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PackardDon
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Yes, the 288, 327 and 359 were basically the same block but the 359 was heavier (both crank and block weighed more) with 9 main bearings. Also, some Packard models had 9-main 327s too while others were 5-main 327 and all 288s were 5-main.

Posted on: 7/17 16:11
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Re: 356 & 359 info and choices.
#12
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Wat_Tyler
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Welcome to things that Wat has wondered about, too. I did find a list of engines and transmissions and weights and now I can't. As I recall, the 356 with o/d trans tips the scales (I just wanted to say that) at 1040 pounds. Approximate weights I could find quickly for the 288/327 engines shave 100-150 pounds from that, likely differing if they are 5-main or 9-main blocks. I reckon that the 359 would be in the 940 pound range.


I'm not sure then, based on that, if weight much much of a factor in your choice. There was an auction a couple of months back with one car, a '41 or '42 120 ragtop with a 356 and an Edmonds manifold. Sold for $6500 IIRC. The manifold is probably worth 2K by itself. So, someone made one fit one time, at least.


If I were you - and I am well aware that I am not - I would probably do the 359. The geometry is a bit better for revving and you can likely bore it another sixteenth and get that much more displacement. My theory is that 5K revs can be gotten out of those 9-main blocks. I could be wrong.


If you decide to do 282s after all, I have two which I'd swap you for what you have and toss in some boot as well.


Ghat I'd really like to know is, what do you intend to do for transmissions? I'm wanting to try a 5-speed replacement in one.


Either way, or whichever way you want to go, I wish you the very best of luck with your project, and I'd love to read about it if you decide to blog about it.

Posted on: 7/17 18:48
If you're not having fun, maybe it's your own damned fault.
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Re: 356 & 359 info and choices.
#13
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Scienceaddict
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Wat,
You hit the nail on the head. I fully intend to build the 359 max effort eventually. And that's another point in sticking the 356 in the car complete, it leaves the 359 on the side where I can work magic on it while still driving the car. I want column shift with overdrive, my goal is traditional "run what you brung" hotrod, but in grand touring form, fitting as many people in it and having a grand time. The 3spd and overdrive will probably be perfect.

I have a YouTube channel, mostly Land Rover content, but I'll definitely get Packard content on there too.

Posted on: 7/17 19:45
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Re: 356 & 359 info and choices.
#14
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Wat_Tyler
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Quote:

Scienceaddict wrote:
Wat,
You hit the nail on the head. I fully intend to build the 359 max effort eventually. And that's another point in sticking the 356 in the car complete, it leaves the 359 on the side where I can work magic on it while still driving the car. I want column shift with overdrive, my goal is traditional "run what you brung" hotrod, but in grand touring form, fitting as many people in it and having a grand time. The 3spd and overdrive will probably be perfect.

I have a YouTube channel, mostly Land Rover content, but I'll definitely get Packard content on there too.



Okay, gotcha on the 3 speed and o/d. But you can't bang shift those. Always trade-offs.


I follow the 356 for now and the 359/Frankenmotor for later. I bought a 327 9-main block last year with a comparable idea. I had read something to the effect that "oh, 359s are out there," and I can say with 100% certainty that yours is the first I have heard about for sale. Three fifty-sixes, on the other hand, turn up with regularity. I leave the pre-war ones for the restoration crowd (they're usually much more expensive) and scarf up post-war blocks, saving them for my nefarious schemes. So, I'm kinda jealous. A little. Okay, not really. So, please keep us posted.


Which reminds me, I have to call a guy about a 356 . . . .

Posted on: 7/18 18:27
If you're not having fun, maybe it's your own damned fault.
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Re: 356 & 359 info and choices.
#15
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Scienceaddict
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Now, should I swap the 288 head onto the 356 then, or leave well enough alone? Both engines were barn stored, no carb or exhaust on them so really should clean out, also I'm not too keen on the 6.8:1 compression. But then again, with the 288 it's supposedly 9.28 so potentially unfun there as well.
Has anyone got chamber and head gasket volume numbers? It's possible someone modified the 288 head. Also head gaskets aren't cheap.

Posted on: 7/19 6:24
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Re: 356 & 359 info and choices.
#16
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JeromeSolberg
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Reading through the forums it appears there used to be an extra-thick "export" head gasket available that could have been used to reduce compression ratio on the 359 in the past. But also that folks have tried double head gaskets with little success. Some folks have suggested milled pistons.

You should be able to work out the chamber volume from the calculated compression ratio, or vice-versa.

D = Bore Diameter, in
A = pi*D^2/4, in^2
S = stroke, in
C = Chamber Volume, in^3

C.R. = (A*S+C)/C

Posted on: 7/19 9:48
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Re: 356 & 359 info and choices.
#17
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HH56
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Can't help with your swap question but yes it is possible the head was modified. Be very careful of any different heads you find or use. Even with brand new heads, there is very little valve to head clearance when valves are fully open. Unless you know for sure the swap head has not been previously milled always test it first.

Easiest way is to take a bit of modeling clay and place a thin layer in the head above the valve edges. Lay head on the block and rotate the engine thru a couple of revolutions. Check or measure the thickness of clay where the valve edges have made an impression. If you have clearance on all then the headgasket will add a bit more and you are good to go. If a valve actually flattens the clay and touches the head, you will need to provide clearance in some way or find another head. This will be a valid measurement if the engine has solid lifters that were installed to spec but if hydraulic then you will need to find the lifter lift spec or otherwise account for the additional lift when the lifters are pumped up.

It is an unfortunate fact that many have decided to have a head smoothed or a perceived warp removed and when head is back from the machine shop, bolted it on without testing and tried to crank the engine. That is when the valves bend or otherwise damage something in the valve train. It was later found out the head had been machined once or twice before and the last bit taken off was too much and head is now only good for scrap metal. I would be very careful of any loose ebay heads. They may be good but they could also be from someone trying to make up for his accidental introduction to scrap metal.

Posted on: 7/19 10:05
Howard
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Re: 356 & 359 info and choices.
#18
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Scienceaddict
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Quote:

JeromeSolberg wrote:
Reading through the forums it appears there used to be an extra-thick "export" head gasket available that could have been used to reduce compression ratio on the 359 in the past. But also that folks have tried double head gaskets with little success. Some folks have suggested milled pistons.

You should be able to work out the chamber volume from the calculated compression ratio, or vice-versa.



D = Bore Diameter, in
A = pi*D^2/4, in^2
S = stroke, in
C = Chamber Volume, in^3

C.R. = (A*S+C)/C


Only problem is that you also have to Take into account hg volume, which can be a lot in the case of a flathead. Also there's the dead space between the crown down to the first ring, and also any volume from the valve set into the block etc.

Does anyone know cranking compression pressures for the given compression ratios? I trust the engine ran, it originally belonged to a guy who did high dollar restorations, so it could very well be fettled to a reasonable compression.

I Also need a starter, is there a cheap alternative to an original, that will fit? My buddie's off his dodge seemed to fit really well except for the mounting hole. Looked like it'd engage well too.

Will the 359 take the same starter as the 356? I have one on the 282 but I'd assume that's different? Would the 282 fuel pump fit the other two? I think I have one.

Posted on: 7/19 16:25
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Re: 356 & 359 info and choices.
#19
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Owen_Dyneto
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The 356 had a unique starter motor (AutoLite step-down gear drive) not used on other Packard engines.

Posted on: 7/19 16:56
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Re: 356 & 359 info and choices.
#20
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Wat_Tyler
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I may have more 356 starters than I have engines to mount them on, but I'm 650 miles away from being able to look at them. Color me useless for the moment.

Posted on: 7/19 18:30
If you're not having fun, maybe it's your own damned fault.
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