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1941 160 overdrive solenoid
#1
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29tons
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I had my trans rebuilt. i am installing it now. i am trying to install the solenoid on the right rear overdrive. I cannot get the shaft of solenoid to hook to the mechanism inside the overdrive I am able to get it hooked if i remove the spacer in the picture but with the spacer on it seems to be slightly to short. I moved the rear shaft of trans and can get the mechanism to move in further, so the overdrive is in gauged. is there a way to wire up solenoid temporally to extend so i could hook it up the solenoid was tested and does work.

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Posted on: 11/5 6:19
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Re: 1941 160 overdrive solenoid
#2
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HH56
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You need to electrically energize the solenoid to extend the pawl so it is long enough to reach in and grab the slot.

If the wiring in the car can be hooked up the procedure in the training manual of grounding the governor terminal can be followed. If it is just the solenoid alone you will need a heavy jumper wire coming from the battery that is at least the same size as the wire in the loom connected to BOTH TERMINALS 3 and 4 simultaneously to energize the solenoid and keep the pawl extended. 3 is the hold coil and it alone is not strong enough to pull the plunger. 4 is the pull in coil and it alone will make the solenoid "machine gun" without the hold coil keeping plunger out when the internal contact disconnects the pull in coil. Once the pawl is extended you can tilt the entire solenoid to the appropriate angle to grab the slot from the side.

Note that the spacer is not symmetrical and solenoid will bind if installed backwards. The two small holes in the spacer are located toward the rear of the OD when mounted.

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Posted on: 11/5 8:37
Howard
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Re: 1941 160 overdrive solenoid
#3
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todd landis
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Been a number of years since I have had to do this, but to add. I made a long rod with a small hook on the end to grab the pawl and pull it all the way toward the hole, then I could at an angle hook the ball at the end of the solenoid rod onto the pawl. NOW VERY IMPORTANT as stated at the very end the transmission article must be moved so that the pawl is able to move all of the way into a detent. If not aligned will warp the solenoid spacer. If you push the pawl with one of your smaller fingers and rotate the transmission you will feel it go in further, it is then aligned. Now pull it out towards the hole with your hooked tool and angle the solenoid.
Again speaking from several years ago.

Posted on: 11/5 10:17
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Re: 1941 160 overdrive solenoid
#4
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PackardDon
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I don’t recall ever having to energize a solenoid in order to install it. Is that something specific to prewar units?

Posted on: 11/5 12:09
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Re: 1941 160 overdrive solenoid
#5
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HH56
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It is usually needed on the R9. Sometimes you can use the hooked wire like Todd suggests to get the pawl pulled all the way out and then by crossing several fingers get the solenoid to engage without energizing but it is so much easier with the extra room gained when the plunger is extended. R11 is a completely different OD design and I don't believe it is needed when working on that one.

Posted on: 11/5 12:21
Howard
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Re: 1941 160 overdrive solenoid
#6
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Icarus
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I was struggling with this when I was messing with the overdrive on my 48. HH56 is right, the easiest way is to energize the solenoid. You can also use a standard telescopic parts grabber magnet to pull the solenoid back to the released position when (not if, when) you push it too deep.

Posted on: 11/6 5:33
-1948 Packard Super Deluxe Eight LWB
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Re: 1941 160 overdrive solenoid
#7
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29tons
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After finding a wire off at key switch, and replacing blown fuse at starter. also cleaned the contacts on the relay. I had 2 wires at solenoid that had power. 1 of those wires went to the hold and the other wire went to the push terminals. Even with the solenoid grounded the solenoid the solenoid pulsates. I saw the guy check the solenoid. But i think next time I get a chance I will pull solenoid back out and test again on the bench.I was able to get the solenoid hooked to pawl on the trans when it was pulsating. The car has been sitting since 1979 maybe the solenoid is bad.

Posted on: 11/6 14:50
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Re: 1941 160 overdrive solenoid
#8
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HH56
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The way it works is when at speed the governor closes a contact which goes thru other switches to relay box terminal 5 which brings in the main relay in the box. It's contact closes and lights the indicator light as well as supply direct power to terminal 4 on the solenoid to energize the pull in coil. At the same time the main relay provides voltage thru the second relay coil in the box and out to supply terminal 3 on the solenoid for the hold coil. The second relay coil and hold coil are in series.

The solenoid energizes and extends the plunger. At the end of plunger travel there is a contact inside the solenoid which opens to cut power to the pull in coil. The hold coil is still getting power and with the plunger already extended the hold coil is strong enough to keep the plunger out when the pull in coil is disconnected.

If the hold coil is not able to maintain the extension possibly something is giving a false impression of having a good voltage on terminal 3. One of the inline connectors or a terminal could be dirty creating a high resistance. Not as likely but a bad solder joint on the coil inside the relay box or solenoid is also a possibility. Another possibility is someone tried to operate the OD on 12v. While the heavy wire pull in coil might handle it since it is soon turned off the hold coil could have burned out.

A voltmeter can see a voltage is present just measuring at a wire but without having a regular load cannot measure the quality of that voltage. Is terminal 3 voltage still right at 6v when connected and measured at the solenoid with the load of the coil connected? If so and it does not hold it could be more testing to rule out a few things is needed but if not, look for a bad connection somewhere else. The inline connectors that are probably at a clamp point on the frame where the wires from the main loom join the short loom section coming from the solenoid were known to corrode and cause issues even when the cars were new.

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Posted on: 11/6 15:48
Howard
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Re: 1941 160 overdrive solenoid
#9
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Quite a regular

Chuck McDonald
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You need to activate the solenoid which will extend the shaft, then you will have the lenghth you need, after it is in just remove the jumper wires

Posted on: 11/14 4:04
Chuck McDonald
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