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2 items
#1
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Fish'n Jim
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1. the restoration vs refurbishment? status: since many vehicles when they become bona fide "antique" usually 25 years, some of the items needed for restoring are not longer available nor made, paint being the most obvious. Eventually NOS parts become unobtainium or too costly to merit use in an average vehicle.
How can we talk about "restoring" such a vehicle that's say more than 50 years old, and about the only way to resurrect is to repair and replace with whatever material is available or possibly upgrade? Isn't it better to refer to that as a refurb? eg: early exterior seating using vinyl vs original leather. Upholstery by a local shop with off the shelf fabrics - can be quality, too. Replication is another term, but has too many other connotations, in other genre.
Or do we need a new term for these? As we've progressed in the age of automobiles to a new convergence, shrinking # of survivors and parts. Any 2 cents...
2. I've been thinking of building a Packard weathervane(out of copper) and was trying to narrow the field to the most iconic or recognized. I could use the packard font and just letters, etc. Obviously a '49 ain't no eye catch'n winner. I thought about just a grill or front end or something. Suggestions welcome. What happens when the brain gets old, if worries about stuff it should not or get involved in.

Posted on: 2023/9/17 19:51
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Re: 2 items
#2
Just can't stay away
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Doc
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I’m running into the same dilemma with my std 8 in finding the original fabric pattern and type of cloth that the factory used, to cover my seats, without breaking the bank. If i use non original fabric to upholster my seats, then is it original?? Same with my door panels, they look old and faded but are all there and original (see pic). Would love for them to be pristine, but will leave them as is for now.
Doc

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Posted on: 2023/9/17 20:14
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Re: 2 items
#3
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Pgh Ultramatic
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I always consider "restoring" to mean repairing with the best or most accurate parts that are available, within reason. Of course this varies based on what you are doing... for example, obviously no one has NOS rolls of fabric or cans of paint lying around, but NOS trim parts tend to be numerous.

Even for, say, the metal parts the details can vary widely. Mercedes-Benz, for example, you can buy parts straight off the manufacturer website for 50+ year old cars and I've heard they can 1-off many obscure parts as needed (for the price of only your whole bank account, probably). Of course for Packard-specific things, nearly all the metal mechanical parts will be used, with some rare NOS. On the other hand, for restoring a 1909 EMF 30, you'd better have access to a machine shop. Unsurprisingly, this is the case with many rare Brass-era make restorations.

I guess my point is, a potential buyer of a classic car should have a general awareness of parts availability, and from what source (NOS, repro, used, scratch-build) for the various major categories (interior, trim, mechanical) and whether something is a "restoration" can be opined on that basis.

Posted on: 2023/9/17 20:19
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Re: 2 items
#4
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Packard Don
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Interesting discussion and a term that I see misused all the time. I see Restored in the title but then look at the car and see it lowered, odd wheels and disc brakes, not to mention a modern V8! Restored means to put it back to the way it left the factory but that said, some parts are indeed unobtanium and other parts might be better updated as long as the appearance remains the same. For example, I am not adverse at all to LED lighting to add a level of safety or certain solid state components to add a level of dependability.

Quote:
I’m running into the same dilemma with my std 8 in finding the original fabric pattern and type of cloth that the factory used, to cover my seats, without breaking the bank. If i use non original fabric to upholster my seats, then is it original?? Same with my door panels, they look old and faded but are all there and original (see pic). Would love for them to be pristine, but will leave them as is for now.

Aren't those seat covers? If so, the original upholstery should be underneath.

Posted on: 2023/9/17 21:24
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Re: 2 items
#5
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Fish'n Jim
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I guess we never make it past item 1, lesson for me. Not going to resolve this one anyway - raise awareness.
When I went through the material search for the '49, I was able to find the everyone said "unobtainium" exact material from SMS. (almost 10 years ago) It took weeks of back and forth/samples etc. but I got the right cloth - the last of it - code 65. But there's less vendors now, too. The house of last resort now. The accent marble vinyl trim was nowhere. I bought leather skins for the trim, it's 2 B a custom anyway.
I'm leaning to use "refurbish" after ~30 years when parts are no longer off the shelf as in "early restoration". LED lights don't apply unless born with. Pre '64 safety act, no problem with dual brakes + or today's traffic. Purists howl.
You can bet it's a junker, if the ad says "total restoration" needed. It's the old cast a wide net routine.
Hirsch also has some P broad cloths, if you get lucky with stock ones. He also has it/can be made in Ireland.
Like most things when you observe long enough, these things go through design/fashion fads. eg; They had plaid (ouch!) vinyl in post war. looks good in a woodie - only. Stripes were zoot suit and Widest white wall era. You won't find in today auto stuffs - mono-drab poly-something aka earth tones or cheapest available, if you prefer.
Do what we did in the day, throw a blanket over it or you could get dealer clear vinyl seat covers for day one. We'd put a seat cushion on the hole over the exposed springs.
P used some sort of pre-vinyl art deco pressed/embossed door panels which are not easily repro-ed. Mine are like that - concentric lines cloth bonded to the backing. Today, they pad and stitch it in or fuse if vinyl.

Posted on: 2023/9/21 11:25
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Re: 2 items
#6
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CCR
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I think a lot of what someone does should be based on the condition and use. At one point when I was just beginning to explore buying I had the idea that I wanted something decent but would modernize a bit as a mild resto-mod. Then, I ended up with an original survivor car and have found myself trying to be as pure as possible with new only being NOS, and going so far as to not even want to add overdrive (I can hear the responses to that as I type). My other car, however, is a major restoration and that one I am looking to do limited changes: interior material (original seats still), upgraded engine, slightly wider tires and maybe some A/C that is minimally visible. Of course money will drive that one.

I will add that as a newer Packard owner than most on here, I have very much appreciated that most Packard owners tend to limit what they do to the cars. Perhaps that's another reason why I didn't seriously consider a standard 30's Ford or other commonly hotrod make.

Posted on: 2023/9/21 19:37
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Re: 2 items
#7
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Doc
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AMEN!

Posted on: 2023/9/22 9:17
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Re: 2 items
#8
Just can't stay away
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Doc
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Yeas you are correct. I will look until I find what i like and be satisfied that it’s the best that I can do.

Posted on: 2023/9/22 9:23
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