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Re: Idiot's First Packard: 51' 200 Ultramatic Coupe
#21
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Packard Don
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I thought I posted this earlier but I don’t see it now. Anyway, I imagine the head got replaced somewhere along the line with whichever and whatever was available at the time without thoughts of the compression ratio even entering into it. That said, there are heads for both 288 and 327 as I have one at my shop.

Posted on: 6/11 21:25
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Re: Idiot's First Packard: 51' 200 Ultramatic Coupe
#22
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Ozstatman
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chocobo9x, for including your '51 200 Deluxe Club Sedan in PackardInfo's Packard Vehicle Registry.

Posted on: 6/11 23:58
Mal
/o[]o\
====

Bowral, Southern Highlands of NSW, Australia
"Out of chaos comes order" - Nietzsche.

1938 Eight Touring Sedan - SOLD

1941 One-Twenty Club Coupe - SOLD

1948 Super Eight Limo, chassis RHD - SOLD

1950 Eight Touring Sedan - SOLD

What's this?
Put your Packard in the Packard Vehicle Registry!
Here's how!
Any questions - PM or email me at ozstatman@gmail.com
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Re: Idiot's First Packard: 51' 200 Ultramatic Coupe
#23
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chocobo9x
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Took a look at the carb - didn't seem gunked up poking it and it is bone dry.
Popped the fuel line to it off and the strainer is... ok? stained but not much on it.
blew it out and put it back for now, next i need to figure out how the fuel pump works - are they vacuum based?
ordered some ignition components off of brillmans website - the battery cables look like someone mauled them with a hammer and they had some so just ordered it all there.
got a charger / jumper thing that does 6v so no longer worried about draining the battery fooling around.
Turned the radio on - it lights up but thats all, is there a rebuild\replacement for those?

Posted on: 6/14 22:03
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Re: Idiot's First Packard: 51' 200 Ultramatic Coupe
#24
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DavidPackard
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Chocobo9x

It is a traditional mechanical fuel pump design. Cam mounted eccentric moves an arm, which deflects a diaphragm up and down. A set of inlet and outlet check valve allow the diaphragm to draw-in and discharge the fuel. The check valves keep the fuel flowing in the correct direction. Failure points are several, including: 1) Malfunction valves, 2) Ruptured diaphragm, and 3) Inlet air leak . . . likely at the flexible hose just prior to the pump inlet. Those are the typical failure modes of the pump itself. Another less likely would be a worn arm or eccentric.
If the pump is a duplex design the upper section is a vacuum pump to aid in maintaining wind shield wiper vacuum during low engine vacuum conditions. The design is similar to the fuel side in that there is a diaphragm, and check valves.
I think on this site you can find a tutorial on overhauling a fuel pump. That tutorial has plenty of photos that you can acquaint yourself with the inner workings of the fuel pump. See Literature Archive / How-To’s & Tech Tips / How To: Rebuilding a Packard Fuel Pump.

dp

Posted on: 6/14 23:01
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Re: Idiot's First Packard: 51' 200 Ultramatic Coupe
#25
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kevinpackard
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I agree with David on the fuel pump. There is a very strong possibility that it will need to be rebuilt. Without knowing the history of the car you have no idea if it has been rebuilt in the past. The original rubber on the diaphragm will likely tear. They aren't difficult to rebuild and there is a great tutorial that David told you about. There is probably a YouTube video by Then and Now Automotive that should cover a pump similar to yours.

If there has been old gas sitting in the tank then it needs to be drained and the car run from fresh gas out of a can and not from any of the original system, until you get the fuel system cleaned up and sorted. Otherwise you have a very high risk of gumming up your valves and leading to multiple stuck valves. Been there, done that. Take the time and go through the steps to get a good, clean fuel system from front to back....it'll pay dividends in the end. Either have the fuel tank cleaned or replace it. Clean out or replace the main fuel line from the tank to pump. Rebuild the fuel pump. Replace the flexible fuel line to the fuel pump. Rebuild the carburetor (high likelihood the accelerator pump is shot). Do this and you'll have a solid fuel system that won't let you down. It is well worth the work!!

-Kevin

Posted on: 6/14 23:25
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Re: Idiot's First Packard: 51' 200 Ultramatic Coupe
#26
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humanpotatohybrid
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I second everything Kevin (and Dave) said. Very important. Also worth noting, the fuel pump check valves are rubber discs that turn into the consistency of leather over time. So your pump may appear to work when it actually barely is, giving you low fuel pressure which can resemble a host of issues.

For the radio, probably the vibrator is not working. You would hear a BZZZZZZZ sound when you turn it on if it IS working. You can buy a solid state replacement, or carefully repair yours. Also check that no vacuum tubes are burnt out (just have the radio on and check that they light up). It's also best practice, though not strictly necessary, to replace the capacitors in the unit since they go bad with age. Remember to connect it to the car antenna, raised, for testing. You'll never get reception otherwise.




Posted on: 6/15 6:28
1955 400 | Registry | Project Blog
1955 Clipper Deluxe | Registry | Project Blog
1955 Clipper Super Panama | Registry
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Re: Idiot's First Packard: 51' 200 Ultramatic Coupe
#27
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chocobo9x
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Thanks for the info!
I took the lines off the tank and ran b-12 cleaner in it then pumped that out, and used a air compressor to blow the lines out from the tank to the fuel pump.
After that i tried turning over with fresh gas in the tank but the fuel pump barely moved a smidge of air so next step is to remove that and rebuild.
So far been pretty impressed with how easy things are to remove - the tank looks fairly new and nothing has been rusted in place or way over tightened.
The radio I will save that link and rebuild that vibrator thingy when i get to the inside bits, thankfully seems like not much to do in there - front turn signals are working not sure why the rears are not but maybe the lights are out.

Posted on: 6/15 20:15
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Re: Idiot's First Packard: 51' 200 Ultramatic Coupe
#28
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Packard51
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Do you have her running yet?

Posted on: 6/20 6:18
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Re: Idiot's First Packard: 51' 200 Ultramatic Coupe
#29
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chocobo9x
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Sorry for the late response parts took forever it felt like to arrive then troubleshooting it after,

Click to see original Image in a new window

I still wasn't getting fuel to flow after replacing fuel pump and checking the lines, realized spark wasn't occurring so started checking that out when i realized that while turning over the engine with the plug out to see spark the piston wasn't moving.

pulled all the plugs and turned it over and out of 8 2 move.
on a scale of rebuild to toss how screwed am i?

Posted on: 7/15 20:57
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Re: Idiot's First Packard: 51' 200 Ultramatic Coupe
#30
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Packard Don
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You can't see the pistons through the spark plug holes. The spark plugs are over the valves and if they aren't moving, then all is not lost so get it soaking in oil by filling the holes, then lightly screw back in the plugs to keep out dust. Let it sit a day or two, turn it a quarter turn or so by hand using the starter will blow out the oil), add more oil and let it sit. Continue for a week or two. Once it’s all had time to penetrate, remove the plugs, lay a tower across the engine to catch the oil, then crank it over with the starter to blow it all out. Put the plugs back in using new seals under them, the look for the no-spark issue.

For no spark, it’s probably just oxidation on the points so clean and adjust them to the proper gap. You can test by disconnecting the wire to the distributor and measuring to ground with an ohm meter. When the points are open, it will have no reading and with them closed, it will read a connection.

Posted on: 7/15 21:00
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