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Re: Mojave Tan - A 1956 400 Saga
#31
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Pgh Ultramatic
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Bob told me his spare radiator(s) were no good, FYI. But may as well test them.

Posted on: 2/2 0:45
1955 400 | Registry | Project Blog
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Re: Mojave Tan - A 1956 400 Saga
#32
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56Clippers
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The radiator cap spec. Is 12 psi.

Posted on: 2/2 0:53
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Re: Mojave Tan - A 1956 400 Saga
#33
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kevinpackard
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A big thank you to Bob (56Clippers) for his help today in diagnosing the issues with the Torsion Level suspension. I went into it with a very basic understanding of the concept, but no idea how the electrical side of the system worked. With his guidance we were able to test the entire system and localize the problem. The previous owner (happy) had obviously done some work to the system, as the brake light switch was new, torsion bars had been straightened, and the controller box had been opened before.

I don't have pictures to share at the moment, but I do hope to throw together a video explaining the electrical side of the system now that I understand it. The coolest thing was testing the operation of the controller...watching the bimetal strip bend and move to activate the relays was great. Loved it.

Everything in the system works normally except for the solenoids. Both of them do not work. I plan to remove them and see if a hammer will free them up. Otherwise I will be on the lookout for replacements. I was going to do that today but ran out of time due to other things coming up. I'll pull them this week and go from there.

Click to see original Image in a new window

Posted on: 2/4 0:42
Kevin

1954 Clipper Super Panama | Registry | Project Blog
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Re: Mojave Tan - A 1956 400 Saga
#34
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Packard Don
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The relays should be easy to test for basic operation without physically removing them although testing how well they work under a load might be another matter. Still, you can get a good idea of whether or not they click and if they do, whether or not there is continuity across the larger terminals! It seems odd that both would go out.

Posted on: 2/4 2:25
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Re: Mojave Tan - A 1956 400 Saga
#35
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Pgh Ultramatic
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I have extras somewhere. I would have to test them.

Probably the old ones are repairable with a bit of effort, but I don't remember if you can really open them without damage.

Are you sure the contacts and connections on them are clean? Relay failure is pretty remote and I don't know why both would fail.

Posted on: 2/4 7:11
1955 400 | Registry | Project Blog
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Re: Mojave Tan - A 1956 400 Saga
#36
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HH56
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Just because the control switch appears to be working doesn't mean the problem is not still inside that assy. The contacts can oxidize from just sitting and may not be able to pass enough current to energize the solenoids. As I recall Stewart B. had that issue when he was working on his 55 TL. He ordered a new switch only to find the exact problem was present on a NOS switch still in the Packard box which had just been on a shelf for 60 years. In this drawing I would at least try to clean the main side 1 contacts and the relay contacts but pay special attention to those labeled as contacts 2 on the bimetal strips before condeming the solenoids. Also verify the limit switches are normally closed and do not have broken wires under the weatherproofing. Wire fatigue and then breaking right at the switch terminals is a fairly common issue on 56 limit switches.

Click to see original Image in a new window


Don't forget the solenoids are a special type and must be hooked up with the battery on the correct terminal. After that, to operate they need a ground on the control terminal which is coming from the control switch and thru the limit switches. Many owners over the years have tried to replace the TL solenoid with a typical parts store starter type solenoid which will not work in that application. Here is a photo of a Packard solenoid showing the correct terminal hookup if you cannot find any factory identifying labels on your terminals to verify proper connections.

Click to see original Image in a new window


If you find you do need a new solenoid here are modern Cole-Hersee replacements. These are often carried by ebay vendors and some have said even Napa or Amazon has had them. The 24046 should be the correct replacement item but look at yours and the way it is mounted on the car and particularly which terminal the buss bar with power will connect with. Battery power must be on terminal 1 if using the 24046 orientation. There is a mirror image solenoid with electrical terminal requirements on opposite sides which is available should you find the terminals would be incorrect and the 24046 would not mount or fit correctly.

Click to see original Image in a new window

Posted on: 2/4 10:04
Howard
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Re: Mojave Tan - A 1956 400 Saga
#37
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kevinpackard
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Thanks for the input everyone. I have not yet removed and cleaned the connections at the solenoids. The connections everywhere else have been removed and cleaned. The inside of the controller looks good and functions as it should. Contacts may have some mild oxidation, but whoever was in there previously had cleaned things up and applied some dielectric grease to the contacts to prevent oxidation. Bimetal strips look brand new.

I have not pulled the limit switches off yet, nor checked the wires to them.

The solenoids do not work at all when jumping from the bus bar to the limit switch terminal. No sounds, no movement. Jumping (briefly due to no limit switches) from the bus bar to the motor terminal causes instant movement of the motor for both solenoids. My understanding is that jumping from the bus bar to the limit switch terminal should cause the solenoid to activate and the motor to move. No response at all is what is leading to me thinking the solenoids have failed.

Posted on: 2/4 10:45
Kevin

1954 Clipper Super Panama | Registry | Project Blog
1938 Super 8 1605 | Registry | Project Blog
1953 Clipper Deluxe Club Sedan | Registry | Project Blog
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Re: Mojave Tan - A 1956 400 Saga
#38
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HH56
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Little confused on which buss bar you refer to. 55 had buss bars under the car you could ground and bring in the solenoids but on a 56 with solenoids on the inner fender, the only buss bar is the power input connection between the two solenoids. A 30 amp inline fuse in wire from starter solenoid feeds it and the solenoids. There is another fuse - 7 1/2 amp - which takes its power from that same 30 amp fuse and buss bar input point to provide power to the brake light switch and ultimately the control sw via the light green wire. All other connections from the control switch and limit switches needed to operate the solenoids are via direct wire connections.

Posted on: 2/4 10:52
Howard
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Re: Mojave Tan - A 1956 400 Saga
#39
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kevinpackard
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Howard, I'm talking about the bus bar on the solenoids. Grounding out the limit switch terminal on the solenoids should cause power to flow from the bus bar terminals to the motor terminal on the solenoids. Using a known good ground has no effect. Using a jumper wire from the bus bar to the motor terminal on the solenoid causes the motor to work immediately. So something within the solenoid is not working.

Fuses are all good and connections to the fuses are clean. Checked all the connections for power and continuity. Bob and I were on the phone for over an hour yesterday going through the whole system.

Posted on: 2/4 11:02
Kevin

1954 Clipper Super Panama | Registry | Project Blog
1938 Super 8 1605 | Registry | Project Blog
1953 Clipper Deluxe Club Sedan | Registry | Project Blog
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Re: Mojave Tan - A 1956 400 Saga
#40
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Ross
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Those solenoids operate by grounding. Thus jumping from the hot bus bar to the small terminal will NOT cause them to operate. The small terminal is already hot. Ground the small terminal and I bet they will work as they seldom give trouble.

It is a common point of confusion for folks that the TL controls work supplying a ground, and not by applying power.

An easy two step test I do when I get cars in with TL problems: Ground the solenoid small terminals one at a time. If the car levels up and down you are 3/4 of the way home and a whole rash of problems are already ruled out. Then go down to the controller and take the little cover off. Ground each of the connections in turn EXCEPTING the center light green. The motor should kick on each and every time. If it is hit and miss, then you have a bad limit switch connected on that side.

Posted on: 2/4 11:07
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