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Re: Your Opinion Whether the New '57 Packard Vertical Grille Would Have Been a Marketing Hit?
#21
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Rusty O\'Toole
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I think 1957 was too soon to revive the vertical grille. It was only 6 years since they got rid of it. The nostalgia for the classic grilles and long hoods only got going in the 70s.

In 1957 it was just old fashioned and out of date, like a Hummer today.

Posted on: 2009/12/29 21:55
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Re: Your Opinion Whether the New '57 Packard Vertical Grille Would Have Been a Marketing Hit?
#22
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Mr.Pushbutton
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Rusty-you touched on something that really rings true, the crucial '57-'60 time period was a very difficult time to be in the business, not unlike today, but hey, at least GM still controlled GMAC at the time. The market went soft in the middle and top, and barely held its own at the bottom, the public did one of those "I'm good with what I have now" things (REALLY going on now) and Detroit could not predict this, nor react to it fast enough.
You have to remember that everything we look at today and laugh, gasp or cluck our tongue at was at one point in history, the right idea, you and I weren't there (as decision-making adults) to understand it in its then-current context. My late friend Dave Holls designed the '59 Cadillac fin in 1954 as almost a joke, a "hey what if we took the fin thing to this level"? The really cool thing back then was, you could dream something really far out, your boss would look at it and consider it, it stood half of a chance of being rendered in clay and some kind of chance of going into production. Packard would have been severly screwed during this phase, again (not to sound like a broken record, but............) their lack of a deep pocketed, multi-bracket sugar Daddy would have been a serious problem had they managed to get that far.

Posted on: 2009/12/29 22:14
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Anonymous
Re: Your Opinion Whether the New '57 Packard Vertical Grille Would Have Been a Marketing Hit?
#23
My opinion is No. because i can't say.

dupontregistry

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Re: Your Opinion Whether the New '57 Packard Vertical Grille Would Have Been a Marketing Hit?
#24
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Ozstatman
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What is this? Covert advertising again?

Posted on: 2009/12/30 3:41
Mal
/o[]o\
====

Bowral, Southern Highlands of NSW, Australia
"Out of chaos comes order" - Nietzsche.

1938 Eight Touring Sedan - SOLD

1941 One-Twenty Club Coupe - SOLD

1948 Super Eight Limo, chassis RHD - SOLD

1950 Eight Touring Sedan - SOLD

What's this?
Put your Packard in the Packard Vehicle Registry!
Here's how!
Any questions - PM or email me at ozstatman@gmail.com
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Re: Your Opinion Whether the New '57 Packard Vertical Grille Would Have Been a Marketing Hit?
#25
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Rusty O\'Toole
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You really get a different slant on the past when you go back to contemporary sources.

Just reading car mags from the 50s and 60s makes it plain they saw things differently from what we do now,some things that we wonder what they were thinking were really cool at the time.

Some things we think are important, they didn't even notice and some things we don't notice were deal breakers back then.

Posted on: 2009/12/30 4:28
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Re: Your Opinion Whether the New '57 Packard Vertical Grille Would Have Been a Marketing Hit?
#26
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Eric Boyle
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Quote:
What is this? Covert advertising again?



Yup, the same guy is over at Classicar.com mucking up the threads there.

1952 Packard sedan

Posted on: 2009/12/30 11:28
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Re: Your Opinion Whether the New '57 Packard Vertical Grille Would Have Been a Marketing Hit?
#27
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LINC400
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Quote:

MrPushbutton wrote:
I think that the vertical grille was a bit much, and another revolving example of how vestigial styling elements are thrown at "modern" (meaning current styles of the moment) by the marketing department or dealers--to whit: Vinyl tops. These began in the 60s, and on the square cars of that era were OK, they were really popular in the 70s and stuck around in the 80s as cars became even more boxier. Lincoln had those faux-convertible tops on the Town cars of that era. I thought that some of the more pleasing designs of the early 90s had been designed so that you couldn't put a vinyl roof on them, like the Chrysler LH cars. The dealers proved the stylists wrong, and did it anyhow, wheter it looked good or not. If there is money to be made, the dealer will do it.

Everything else about the '57 Packards pointed toward a contemporary automobile. The vertical grille is just the wrong shape on the right form, long and low--all horizontal motifs, the mode of the day. Had they been built I think they would have stood up well to the competition, I like the basket handle fin, although that would have been hell to manufacture. It stands out as different. One thing is for certain: a '57 Packard would have had a structurally superior body to any '57 Mopar product, that year began their entry into the dark ages of Chrysler body building, which lasted unitl Iacocca brought talent from Ford to tell them "you can't do it that way".

The history of American cars is dotted with these vestigial elements that won't go away fast enough, or when they should:
"Continental" bumps on Lincoln trunks
diecast "Portholes" on Buicks
Vinyl roofs on everything
chrome plated (plastic) "grilles" that resemble 1920s "form follows function radiator grilles/enclosures
Wooden artillery wheels--these persisted into the mid 1930s, long after the all-steel wheel was the way to go.

The oldtimers want something comfy that reminds them of the good ol' days. Ii have a lot of respect for a company that says "this is how a car should look NOW", like the Ford Tarus or the current Cadillacs. GM realized that if they wanted their product to appeal to someone ten years younger they better not make them all comfy-old-y, and for them it's working.


I have to disagree with a lot of this.

Continental humps started on the 1956 Mark II as a modern interpretation of the original Continental's rear mounted spare. Not only were they carried over to all following Mark series Lincolns, but there was a huge aftermarket supplying Continental humps for everything from Eldorados to Pintos. The Mark series outsold the Eldorado every year in the 1970's. So I may be biased, but I don't see how this is a vestigal element that should have gone away.

Buick portholes were not only requested by Buick customers, but they became such a must have bling thing that you can now buy them at Walmart and put them on anything. I don't see how Buick using their own trademark is a mistake.

Currently some of the most critically acclaimed cars carry vestigal styling cues. The Challenger, Camaro, and Mustang rely very heavily on retro styling. Even the new Cadillacs retain verticle taillights and an eggcrate grill. The original Taurus copied heavily from the 1949-51 Ford, right down to the lack of grill and badge placed where the bullet would have been on the 49-51. Cadillac carried over its tailfins from 1948-1964 with more modern interpretations of them every year. They absolutely clobbered everyone else in the luxury car field with these vestigal remains. Many cars have looked to the past for inspiration and then used a modern interpretation. Many of these designs are quite successful.

So since Packard customers were actually requesting a return to a verticle grill, I think that means they would have wanted a verticle grill on the 1957.

Posted on: 2010/1/5 13:42
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Re: Your Opinion Whether the New '57 Packard Vertical Grille Would Have Been a Marketing Hit?
#28
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portlandon
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The '57 Packard isn't very appealing to me personally, but there were other '57 models that did have vertical grilles that were successful. I also happen to like the '59 Edsel front Grille very much. I think if the '59 Edsel bodystyle had been introduced as the 1958, the Edsel would have been very popular.

The Packard Grille for '57 could have been done a little better, (I like the '55 Packard Request grille more) but could have been kept in the Senior body styles and kept the Clippers with a more conventional horizontal grille. That way the market could have gone with both styles.

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Posted on: 2010/1/5 14:58
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Re: Your Opinion Whether the New '57 Packard Vertical Grille Would Have Been a Marketing Hit?
#29
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LINC400
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http://www.classicandperformancecar.com/front_website/octane_interact/picture.php?getid=13632&table=cars

Even though the styling was more dated, I can't see Rolls Royce using a horizontal grill.

Posted on: 2010/1/5 17:11
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Re: Your Opinion Whether the New '57 Packard Vertical Grille Would Have Been a Marketing Hit?
#30
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BH
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Quote:
...could have been kept in the Senior body styles and kept the Clippers with a more conventional horizontal grille.


Don -

The 1957 Clipper proposal did have a more conventional horizontal grille:

Click to see original Image in a new window


Other styling elements of this clay were a bit more flamboyant - hence, controversial. However, there is more than one rendering that has the '57 Clipper looking more like some sort of "Batmobile", as seen on this page:

1957 and 1958 Packard Concept Cars

As such, the clay shown above is a bit more down to earth, but it probably could have been tempered a little further.

The Studebaker edition of the shared body/platform was even more restrained, but I don't have a pic.

BTW, in one of the Packard books, there is a pic of a clay done (prior to the facelift for the 55th Series), with a front-end and grille treatment that looks similar to the Facel-Vega, but it was rejected for production.

Posted on: 2010/1/5 18:44
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