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Re: Kanter disc brake conversion
#11
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HH56
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One thing we've found recently is the BTV rebuild kit reservoir cover gasket totally blocks off the bleed port from the space between liquid and vacuum seal if put on the normal way. It appears to be for a cover having a channel in the lid or one with the tube that drops into the port.

I haven't seen one of your kits in quite a while but apparently all vendors must be selling the same or similar one. Wonder if that is something you could look into. Reversing the gasket would work but it might be nice to have a little note in the kits to do that or to cut the opening to make the port connect to the reservoir. With the port blocked, any fluid seepage has no place to go except into the vacuum side or if there is a leak on that side, nothing to pull except fluid since relief air is blocked. If another reason that shouldn't be done, then lots would be interested knowing.

The thread where this was discussed is here. http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/mod ... t_id=61084#forumpost61084

Posted on: 2010/11/14 20:22
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Re: Kanter disc brake conversion
#12
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Eric Boyle
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Quote:
A well rebuilt unit is as good as when it was new


Tell that to Craig, Mat from Australia, and a couple others on here, I'm betting they'll disagree with you a little.

This week I promise I'll have a video up showing how to properly rebuild a BTV.

Posted on: 2010/11/14 20:26
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Re: Kanter disc brake conversion
#13
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Craig Hendrickson
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Fred Kanter wrote: Quote:
So please explain why yoiu (sic) state that we "claim" to sell DBK's?

We can supply them, if you have inofrmation (sic) to the contrary please provide same. If not, I request you apologize as appropriate.


I never said that Kanter does not now sell disc brake wheel kits. I was only interested feedback from users. If someone won't pay your asking price, that's a personal decision and certainly no reflection on your DBK's quality or fitment.

Quote:
On the Bendix Treadle Vac (BTV) issue. We have sold over 15,000 BTV rebuild kits for about 8 makes of cars, I would guess that Bendix provided over 5 million units as original equipment between 1952 and 1960. If they were as dangerous as is claimed in this forum then there would have been a huge number of very bad accidents over the years and the weakness of the of the unit would be well documented while those vehicles were used as regular transportation.
A well rebuilt unit is as good as when it was new


There are many, many reports of BTV failure in various modes, so if you haven't heard of them, then "What we have here is a failure to communicate." (Strother Martin in Cool Hand Luke) Most recently, Kevin's newly restored 55 400 with professionally rebuilt BTV failed completely. Last year, Mat's 56 Carib went off the road and smashed up the front end after his BTV failed. I personally know of over a dozen Packard owners who have experienced BTV failure. For myself, I experienced 4 failures on 4 different professionally rebuilt units before I gave up and engineered a modern dual master replacement.

Rather than berate some posters here who complain about BTV failure, I suggest that you and your company get actively involved in finding out WHY BTVs fail or better yet, develop a bolt-on replacement based upon a modern dual MC and booster.

Posted on: 2010/11/14 22:51
Nuke them from orbit, it's the only way to be sure! Ellen Ripley "Aliens"
Time flies like an arrow. Frui
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Re: Kanter disc brake conversion
#14
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Randy Berger
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Last year, Mat's 56 Carib went off the road and smashed up the front end after his BTV failed.
I do not remember Mat ever posting the exact reason for his accident. I don't catch everything however, and if he did post the reason I would like to know the post so that I may read it for myself.

Posted on: 2010/11/15 2:05
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Re: Kanter disc brake conversion
#15
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Rocky46
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Quote:

randy berger wrote:
I do not remember Mat ever posting the exact reason for his accident. I don't catch everything however, and if he did post the reason I would like to know the post so that I may read it for myself.


I would also like to know the reason, as I just have discovered (sic) that my newly bought Clipper 56 has a BTV and it most probable needs to be overhauled.

Tom

Posted on: 2010/11/15 9:32
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Re: Kanter disc brake conversion
#16
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HH56
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I think several are waiting for info from Mat and maybe another poster who had a recent failure.

With the really questionable quality of the compensator valve being supplied from ??? as shown on this thread http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/mod ... t_id=64104#forumpost64104 and the gasket issue mentioned starting here http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/mod ... t_id=61201#forumpost61201 which may be present even in a professional rebuild, there is room for a question or two about the kits.

One thing also is the compensator valve spring some suspect as part of the issue with valve is still not included in a rebuild kit or apparently available from the vendors. I can understand it not being included in the original kits because the units were relatively new and springs fresh but after 50 years, one might suspect it too is tired and needs replacing.

Posted on: 2010/11/15 10:01
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Re: Kanter disc brake conversion
#17
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Stephen Houseknecht
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There certainly appears to be a rich cross-section of mechanical and engineering backgrounds hanging out here to start figuring this thing out. I would like to see a coordinated effort to come up with a suitable dual master cylinder replacement set up for the BTV, either a new design or adaptation from an existing dual master cylinder.

I know there are going to be liability concerns for anything that comes up as a solution to this problem. This Bendix thing makes me nervous as I had a Bendix power brake booster system on my 76 IH ScoutII. The vacuum unit would start to leak vacuum almost every 40,000 miles like clockwork. After the third failure I just RTV'd the seam for the front and rear casing. These were brand new from Bendix to bend over time at the IH parts counter.

I am planning a correct body off restoration on the Derham, I am not planning on using a single brake system. I wonder what else may be missing or incorrectly reproduced from the aftermarket BTV rebuilds.

Posted on: 2010/11/15 10:56
Stephen
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Re: Kanter disc brake conversion
#18
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Craig Hendrickson
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Stephen wrote: Quote:
There certainly appears to be a rich cross-section of mechanical and engineering backgrounds hanging out here to start figuring this thing out. I would like to see a coordinated effort to come up with a suitable dual master cylinder replacement set up for the BTV, either a new design or adaptation from an existing dual master cylinder.


Since you are relatively new to PackardInfo, you must have missed the innumerable threads on this subject. There have been several suitable replacements for the BTV adapted by members including mine:

http://www.1956packardpanther.com/Panther/powerbrakes.html

Most other adaptions mount a modern dual MC on the firewall, covering up the D-side vent. Whatever the adaption, to my knowledge none of these have ever failed, whereas the BTV continues to fail.

Posted on: 2010/11/15 11:45
Nuke them from orbit, it's the only way to be sure! Ellen Ripley "Aliens"
Time flies like an arrow. Frui
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Re: Kanter disc brake conversion
#19
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PackardV8
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Craig wites:
"Most other adaptions mount a modern dual MC on the firewall, covering up the D-side vent. Whatever the adaption, to my knowledge none of these have ever failed, whereas the BTV continues to fail."

That is the most concise and intellegent analysis i've heard in 12 years of my Packard ownership.

A lot can be read into that. Either way, it says IT ALL!

Posted on: 2010/11/15 13:16
VAPOR LOCK demystified: See paragraph SEVEN of PMCC documentaion as listed in post #11 of the following thread:f
http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/mod ... ewtopic.php?topic_id=7245
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Re: Kanter disc brake conversion
#20
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Stephen Houseknecht
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Craig,

I have been following the BTV threads with considerable interest and I also checked out your blog with the brake conversion a while ago. There is no way I am going to go with BTV or any other single system.

I am hoping that if folks looking to get upgrade/conversion from BTV to dual system master cylinders generate enough noise, perhaps a Packard kit might become available from MPB, Inline Tube, SSBC, etc to get a standardized conversion.

Maybe several Packard owners could get together and order a BTV conversion kit at the same time to make worthwhile to one of the aftermarket brake guys to offer a Packard kit (and maybe get us a pricing break).

I would also like to see some dual master cylinder guidelines put up for both drum and disc brake applications. We are dealing with different pressures and pedal ratios for self-energizing and disc brake. I for one am not yet comfortable trying to interpret what I will need to do a technically correct conversion from BTV.

Posted on: 2010/11/15 14:04
Stephen
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