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I have been doing some research on the ZIS 110 which has been said in many circles came about because Packard sold the prewar dies to the Russians.

Finally someone prints the real truth on how the ZIS 110 came about. It seems that in 1942 Franklin Roosevelt gave old Joe Stalin a 1942 Packard Super Eight as a present, as it was said the Butcher of Russia liked Packard's. It seems that the Russian simply copied the Packard Super Eight that was given to Stalin. The ZIS 110 if you look close also has some styling highlights of the early 40's Cadillac.

The ZIS 110 was put into production in August 1945 and built until 1956, with a total production of 1500 units. ZIS stands for Zavod Imeni Stalina, but was change to ZIL in 1956.

John F. Shireman

There are a fair number of these vehicles which have been around for careful examination by those who are interested and with a little travel budget. At one time there were at least 2 in the US, several in Scandanavia and Russia. I have a Packard buddy who is in frequent contact with owners in Scandanavia and he has obtained quite a bit of original Russian literature and blueprints for them. There was one at the Packard Centennial in 1999, owned by Sonny Abagnale of New Jersey at the time. Upon quick examination the engines look like a Packard 356, yet the block is just slightly longer so that stock 356 headgaskets don't fit. Many other differences as well. Of the parts I saw that looked like they might have come from the Packard parts bins were some of the dashboard plastic. Yes, while the front clip is decidely Packard inspired, the rear portions of the body are much more GM inspired.

The Russians stayed with the Packard look and even copied the 1956 models. If you ever see the footage of the parade in Red Square honoring Yuri Gagarin, it will appear he is riding in a 1956 Caribbean convertible, but it is a Russian copy.
They were very good at copying, including patent and copyright claims
This Youtube gives a side view of the car in the parade.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8lLzvJSpnY&NR=1

I never heard of the gift of a Packard by FDR to Joe, but I can see how it could have been exaggerated to include the dies for the 1941 auto. I saw the Russian car at Warren in 99 and it did resemble GM product from the rear. It was a good looking copy - don't know how well it ran.

Forget ZIS/ZIl and even Russia for a minute.

Question: Is the 46 Packard the same car as the 42 Packard?????

OR let eme ask the same question in a different way:

Is the IMMEDIATE post war Packard (i assume 46) the SAME as the LAST prewar Packard (i assume 42).

Packard V8. To give a quick answer to your question. The Clipper line of Packards from 1942 and the Clipper line introduced in 1946 are basically the same models. The prewar style of Packards with bolt pontoon type fenders and having exposed running boards, was not re-introduced in 1946.


John F. Shireman

ok. Am i correct then in assuming that the 42 and 46 Clippers were stamped from the "same" dies BUT the 42 and 46 PAckard was completely or nearly completely DIFFERENT dies due to significant body changes????

Furthermore, does the Zis/Zil 110 resemble the 42 AND 46 Clipper or does the zil/zis resemble the 42 OR the 46 Packard?

i.e. ONE of THREE EXCLUSIVE choices hold:

Zis/zil 110 resembles 42 AND 46 Clipper????
Zis/Zil 110 resembles 42 Packard????
Zis/Zil resembles 46 Packard????

Which one of the above three is it???

I think perhaps you're unaware of the fact that Packard offered two distinctly different body styles in late 1941 and 1942; the first was the traditional Packard, basically a continuation of the 1940 model with updates, and the second a NEW Clipper style based on the design study by Dutch Darrin. The ZIS 110 was inspired by the traditional bodied 1941-2 Packard and not the Clipper. The 1942-7 Clipper is essentially the same as the 1941-42 Clipper with some trim changes, most noteably the number, width and spacing of the horizontal grille bars. The grille bars in the traditional bodied Packards of 1941-42 were horizontal and were moveable shutters in the senior line -- the grille bars in the Clippers were cast as a unit with the grille shell. The Clippers, in addition to a completely new body shell, rode on a new chassis which did away with Packard's Safe-T-Flex front supension in favor of a more GM-like approach.

ok thank you. . Now i understand better. The Zis 110 was based on the traditional 41 - 42 Packard.

Is the 46 traditional Packard a carry over of the 41-42 traditonal Packard????

Postwar Packard production continued the Clipper type car only, 1942 was the last year for the older, traditional styling. Though distinctly different bodies and chassis, the engines, transmission, differentials, etc. were common to both the Clipper and the older traditional models.

Thank You Owen.

If the Zis 110 closely resembles the 42 traditional Packard and there was no 46 resemblence let alone no traditional 46 Packard then WHY is it so difficult to believe that the dies might have been held by the Russians?????