Packard Forum Index » Pre-War (1899-1942)

Greetings Forum users

I have had problems with oiling issues with my car since I bought it in 07, I started an overhaul in '10 and got the car back this spring, sadly the issues are still with me.

The car loses its oil at an alaming rate, about 4 quarts in 50 miles and is actually worse now than before the overhaul. The oil is exiting the engine at the scoop at the lower front part of the transmission, I used a collection device while driving to confirm this.

I went back to the shop that did the machine work and they have the motor back out of the car for examination, The rear main looks OK and there isn't anything obious wrong that would explain why the oil would be lost. Slinger return path seems open.

In June in a previous post it was suggested about 50 PSI was where the pressure should be set and thats what I did. The shop that did the work has reference that suggests lower pressure would be correct( not sure which one) but that makes me nervous after spending big $$$ for the engine work.

- Has any one heard of issues where the slinger or some other issue forces oil out when the engine that is running?

- Is the lower pressure likely to damge the engine, Motor has the insert bearings at this point and all new mains.

- The guage in the car shows 50lbs could this be reading low? Perhaps the pressure is higher than it seems?

- Could the pressure adjustment device on the side of the motor malfunction to cause this?

Thanks for any suggestions
Regards
Bill

Sorry to hear of your problems. I though I knew these cars very well, but for the life of me I can't relate to a "scoop" at or near the front of the transmission, or how motor oil could get into the transmission and then leak from it. Can you clarify?

It should only take minutes to temporarily install a referee oil pressure gauge, I suggest you do that first. My 34 Eight runs at 45-50 psi at road speed except under sustained high speed conditions on hot days.

PS - I just went out to look at my spare engine. The only places near the rear of the engine that I see that could cause a significant oil leak are (1) the fitting for the oil pressure line to the gauge, and (2) the threaded rear rocker shaft plug in the rearmost valve shaft/rocker assembly.

Quote:

Owen, This is probably a dumb question but What is the "rocker assembly" you refer to here? Isn't the engine a flat head? The only rocker assembly I can think of is the rocker assembly associated with an over head valve engine.


My thought on the oil loss, assuming a flat head 8, is the plug at the back of the cam shaft. Maybe the mechanic didn't replace the plug and that's where your leak is. I think if that is leaking the oil would exit any opening at the bottom of the bell housing.


It will be interesting to hear the solution to this problem.

Senior eights thru 1939 used a roller cam follower; rollers were on a arm and the arms affixed to a pair of shafts external to the engine below the manifolds. You can see them in this photo, and also in the cross-sectional view from the 1937-1938 shop manual.

Yes, it's a flathead, and there is no plug in the block at the rear of the camshaft.

Attach file:

---

  (95.00 KB)


  (117.86 KB)

Thanks Owen. I assumed that the 35 was similar to what I have. My mistake.

Bobs51, no need to be apologetic; exchanges like yours and mine are how we continue to learn more and more about these cars.

PS - Bob, just took a snap of one of my spare shaft/follower assemblies. You can just see the screw-head plug at the shaft end - note it's "staked" to prevent it from working out. You may note that one of the hardened tappet pads is missing.

Attach file:

---

  (158.21 KB)

Could it be leaking where the multi-piece engine is bolted together? Perhaps something is warped.

I wonder, Kev. There is no pressurized oil galley or connection between the lower aluminum crankcase and the cast iron cylinder bores that I recall, so if so it would just be a leak under the force of gravity. And 4 quarts of oil in 50 miles sure sounds like it would be from something else. Could be the leak is forward of the rear of the engine and the oil is just blowing back to the rear?

Still, a leak of that magnitude should be pretty easy to find.

Dear Classic Cruiser:

There are two possible sources and three possible causes of your oil leak at the back of the motor.

Oil pressure of 50psi will not cause this as I knew old timers years ago who set oil pressure so high as to inhibit horsepower. Throughout the 1930's Packard was increasing the oil pressure on the Senior motors because of results at the proving grounds. By 1939 the spec was 55-60 so that is what I would use as the upper bound for oil pressure using 30w oil. Packard issued service bulletins in the 1930's advising that insert bearing motors should be running higher oil pressures so lowering oil pressure is not a good idea. The SAE general rule for oil pressure is 10psi per 1000 of peak rpm. So for the Packard that translates to 45psi which is what a modern car would use. Higher oil pressure will use up some horsepower.

Now you said the path was clear for the slinger and so I assume that you have removed the oil pan and found the appropriate drain hole in the pan gasket. If the hole in the oil pan drain is blocked by a gasket it will throw oil all over the place.

Next are the wooden dowels in the rear main bearing. I used to mill those out of pine to .27 inches square. If they are not there oil will flow like a buffalo. Most machines shops don't know what they are looking at and throw them in the trash.

I also assume that the slinger end caps are on the motor as well. Don't laugh, I have seen any number of horrors as regards the slinger because motor workers just don't understand what they are looking at. At the back of the motor there should be two aluminum caps secured with eight special Packard fasteners that are tied together with bailing wire. I always used some sealer when assembling these pieces to prevent seepage.

Finally, there is a cam bearing on the back of the motor. That can leak os well. I once serviced a low mileage 426 sedan (1928) that was low mileage because oil was pouring out of that bearing. And that mistake was made by the Packard factory.

Hope this helps,

Thanks for all your input, an impressinve response to be sure. It appears that my problem was both simpler and harder to spot than I first thought. I initially hung a bucket that was cut down to fit under the leading edge of transmission, and held up by wires, thinking that if oil collected there, that it must be the source of the leak, that was not the case.

The engine was setup on a test stand today and run, and it appears that the problem is resolved. Apparently what was happening was that under pressure the seal at the oil float was allowing a stream of oil to run down the engine and with the car in motion, it was the atomized by the airsteam passing the car and appeared in the bucket by that means. The float gasket was apparently the cause of the loss.

I wasn't able to see this first hand so I going to the shop that did the work for me this weekend. Thanks for all the suggestions, I just hope this turns out to be the answer and I can enjoy the car in the spring with out hauling gallons of oil on every trip.

Regards
Bill